“Mr Hurst. After reading your article I read the speech made by Ms Warsi and I tried to be as unbiased as possible. After reading the two I cannot believe the level of bigotry you have demonstrated in your article.

Through your article it seems you wear the shades of prejudice and you can only ever see Islam negatively. In fact I would go a step further. I think you are causing deliberate mischief and trying to stir hatred towards Islam.

you begin by saying "it (Warsi's speech) was simply a demand that Islam is above criticism" However it seems you have deliberately hidden Baroness Warsi's statements such as "I am not saying that people can¿t be anti-religion. What I am opposed to is the rise of unreasonable, unfounded, irrational bigotry" and "religion shouldn¿t fear reason and reason shouldn¿t be denied to faith"

At no place did she suggest that Islam is above criticism in fact she said the opposite!!

You say that Ms Warsi claims"prejudice against Muslims in Britain is at an all time high" but she offered no evidence. One would have thought that a person of your caliber would have done their ground research properly before posting such comments. There are several studies which point to the rise of Islamophobia. A simple google search will reveal many. Perhaps you didn't see a popular viewers poll on sky news in which 70% of the viewers said they feel it has now become acceptable to be prejudiced against Islam.

Finally the pinnacle of your bigotry and absurdness is your advice to Ms Warsi; that she should leave Islam if she is being discriminated because of it!!! Is that the solution to discrimination against one's religion. So should gays stop being gay if they face discrimination. Should Jews and Christians leave their religion if they face discrimination or should we tackle discrimination and try to get rid of the problem rather than the victims!!

Please stop trying to divide our societies and deliberately stirring up hatred amongst people. You will only be harming yourself at the end”

“Mr Hurst. After reading your article I read the speech made by Ms Warsi and I tried to be as unbiased as possible. After reading the two I cannot believe the level of bigotry you have demonstrated in your article.

Through your article it seems you wear the shades of prejudice and you can only ever see Islam negatively. In fact I would go a step further. I think you are causing deliberate mischief and trying to stir hatred towards Islam.

you begin by saying "it (Warsi's speech) was simply a demand that Islam is above criticism" However it seems you have deliberately hidden Baroness Warsi's statements such as "I am not saying that people can¿t be anti-religion. What I am opposed to is the rise of unreasonable, unfounded, irrational bigotry" and "religion shouldn¿t fear reason and reason shouldn¿t be denied to faith"

At no place did she suggest that Islam is above criticism in fact she said the opposite!!

You say that Ms Warsi claims"prejudice against Muslims in Britain is at an all time high" but she offered no evidence. One would have thought that a person of your caliber would have done their ground research properly before posting such comments. There are several studies which point to the rise of Islamophobia. A simple google search will reveal many. Perhaps you didn't see a popular viewers poll on sky news in which 70% of the viewers said they feel it has now become acceptable to be prejudiced against Islam.

Finally the pinnacle of your bigotry and absurdness is your advice to Ms Warsi; that she should leave Islam if she is being discriminated because of it!!! Is that the solution to discrimination against one's religion. So should gays stop being gay if they face discrimination. Should Jews and Christians leave their religion if they face discrimination or should we tackle discrimination and try to get rid of the problem rather than the victims!!

Please stop trying to divide our societies and deliberately stirring up hatred amongst people. You will only be harming yourself at the end”

“I agree that there is a lot of Islamophobia around. However, I know Lyn and would hardly consider him racist. Fairly commenting on and criticising aspects of religious ideology/practice is not racism.

You say there is no issue regarding Halal meat, however, the British Veterinary Association has criticised some kosher and some halal meat (Are they also racist in your view?).
http://www.bva.co.uk/newsroom/2168.aspx

Calling people racist and then saying you want respect is not really fair.

As people have said, Lyn is no longer President of the Secular Society.”

“"
we can absolutely assure you that if you buy British organic lamb and chicken as well as the Willow Farm and Finest Free Range lines, these will not be Halal either.
"
So its pretty easy to make an informed choice isnt it? I would imagine New Zealand lamb is exported all over the world, including the middle east, so thats why doing the whole lot halal is more economical for them.”

“From

Lisa Grassie
Customer Service Manager
Tesco Customer Service


Like all other major UK supermarkets, we source from suppliers who serve Muslim as well as non-Muslim customers. Some of these suppliers process all their meat to Halal standards. For example, all New Zealand lamb meets Halal standards. In these cases, all of our processes still meet the same stringent animal welfare requirements and all animals are stunned prior to slaughter whether the meat is sold as Halal or non-Halal.

We take animal welfare very seriously and that is why we audit all of our slaughter houses to ensure that the stunning process is effective and that the animal feels no pain.

Our high standards of animal welfare and our approach to labelling comply with current UK law. To add further labelling requirements would add unnecessary cost for the consumer.

We appreciate that each individual should be able to make an informed decision and we can confirm that all fresh meat we sell is not Halal, except for lamb and chicken and of those ranges we can absolutely assure you that if you buy British organic lamb and chicken as well as the Willow Farm and Finest Free Range lines, these will not be Halal either.

Basically its more economic to mass produce halal only.

And I agree its a problem we consumers should be raising with the supermarkets etc.”

“"Nearly all the chicken and lamb sold by supermarkets is unlabelled halal." - nearly all? This must be an exaggeration, Halal is bound to be more expensive to produce, and if it is unlabelled Muslims wont be buying it - so whats the point?
But I agree that it should always be labelled - but when it is not, your argument is with the person selling it, NOT with Muslims in general. If retailers are doing this and not being picked up on it, it might precisely be because too many people are too keen to point at some sort of Muslim conspiracy. A genuine issue such as this is more likely to get mainstream public support if it is discussed intelligently, rather than from an anti-Muslim perspective.

In essence its no different to supermarkets labelling of where the produce is sourced: they didnt do this a few years ago, they do now because consumers have made a fuss about it.”

“"To deny halal meat to muslims is a persecution of their basic human rights."

This may be so and I don't have a problem with muslims eating halal meat - I do have issues with halal being forced on the majority of the country. Nearly all the chicken and lamb sold by supermarkets is unlabelled halal. Hospitals, schools, football stadiums (eg Wembley, Old Trafford), most fast food chains etc serve halal without informing people - so were is my basic human right of being supplied non-halal meat ?

As for "However, muslims have never claimed race discrimination" - tell that to the police and traffic wardens that I witnessed being verbally and physically assaulted and accused of racism for ticketing illegally parked cars outside a so called community centre on a Friday.
The visitors to this "community centre" had no respect for others as you claim all muslims are honour bound to”

“I'd suggest that suhail ahmad and anyone else who is interested might like to attend this talk at Secular Hall.

Dilwar Hussain: British Secularism and Religion

Presented by Dilwar Hussain, Head of the Policy Research Centre at the Islamic Foundation, Markfield, Leicestershire (http://www.islamic-foundation.org.uk/User/Home.aspx)

All welcome. Admisson Free. A collection will be taken.
-------------------
Location: Secular Hall, 75 Humberstone Gate, LE1 1WB
Date: Thursday, 3 February 2011
Time: 19:30 GMT
http://www.lsec.org.uk”

“Having read Baroness Warsi's debate and AS's support, I'm sorry but the opposition won hands down.
I was going to defend LH from AS's attack but others have done so very eloquently already.
Isalm is not a race, but AS quite clearly trips himself up several times in his letter over this matter, his thoughts are obviously very confused on the matter and it would be worth him clarifying it. Too criticise it is not being racist nor is it religious discrimination, it is a basic human right to have freedom of thought and speech to debate matters that are little more then a thought process themselves (as does Baroness Warsi and AS have the right to their say). Muslims can believe what they want, as can any other religion or belief system. What they cannot do is force it on me or anyone else, or distort my views and thoughts unheard. Try and convert me by proving your case by reasoned conversation (or dare I say "dinner table talk"), not by bullying or (as I believe the case of BW) misguided reasoning, nor closed mindset (as I suspect is the case of AS). Be open to the fact that you might be wrong whatever you believe.
Most secularists have arrived at their viewpoint freely after starting out in a religion biased world.
I cannot prove the merits either way about Halal (or Kosher) meat but I believe that as our democratic government has made a decision on the electorates behalf, whilst giving a concession to Jews and Muslims, then allow me to abide by the democratic process and have the choice to follow your choice of slaughter if I so wish and not have it tricked on me by failure to disclose it at the point of purchase in the belief that the meat sold conforms to standards aimed at the majority. It is I believe the practice of New Zealand to redirect over supplied Halal/Kosher lamb on to the general market unlabelled, that is at the back of this problem.
The most galling thing from AS's response though, is his belief that a Muslim making a publicly reported speech containing claims about the views of the rest of society, is somehow above criticism and anyone doing so is automatically a supporter of Christianity or a closet Zionist sympathiser. This is the argument of someone who has a closed mind and stereotyped beliefs and is seen countless times being spouted by extremists trying to whip up the crowds.
Allow us the right to argue the merits of BW's comments as we allowed her the right to make them, and of course you have a right to comment in return, but your argument suffers the way you have delivered it.
We live for now in a secular democracy (albeit for historical reasons, Christian undertones) and not a closed theologian state whether Christian, Zionist or Muslim (and so as not to upset someone else, every religion on the planet).
At the end of it all, it is not race, colour or creed that matters, but whether the person is good or bad that matters. The problem is the fact that there is good and bad in all walks of life and sometimes we are reluctant to admit that the bad sometimes lies very close to home.”

“Well done suhail ahmad. I dont agree with a lot of what you have written but I am pleased that you have taken time to put your views forward. Only through discussion can we overcome misunderstandings.
Long live free speech and may the pen (or in this case the computer keyboard) continue to be mightier than the sword.”