“Danny, please don¿t be afraid to disagree, it is your right. To defend your Roman Catholic view of Scripture.
I believe the Reformation, and the ability for the ¿plough boy top read the Bible was the was a milsestone for the church ¿ the word is for the people ¿ not the self-selected. Your position could not be revealed more clearly, but you are still entitle to hold your opinion.

Those who are ¿sincere¿ can be ¿sincerely wrong¿

Soli fidi, Sola Scripture, Soli Deo Gloria.

Adrian”

“Well, Adrian - you certainly feel strongly about this and I am sure there are many others who have similar opinions. However, I am afraid I have to disagree.
The decline of the Christian church began with the reformation and the idea that the bible could be written in other languages than latin and that certain of the clergy should exhibit less pomp and more charity.
When ordinary people can read the bible they can form their own ideas about it and over the years divergence from orthodoxy has become more widespread until now you even have a growing number of people whose questioning has led them to their conclusion that there actually is no god and the bible, like the Torah and Koran and others, are little more than a combination between a series of morality lessons and exhortations to come and join their particular gang.
This isn't a particularly palatable thought to those whose belief in the god that the lessons they were given in their early life has taught them to be the only god, continues to be strongly held.
This isn't to say that many of the morals given are valid, but, just as we now have refrigerators and food preparation techniques which allow us to eat shellfish, pork and other foods deemed dangerous and hence prohibitive over a thousand years ago, so the tolerance we have learned should also tell us that other "holy writings" concerning the place of women and homosexuals in our society are in sore need of updating.”

“@martin... The reference to the worlds ¿Ism & Ologies¿ reveals the intrusion of conformity to the worlds standards. I agree there are far more ¿serious problems¿¿ the decline in numbers and emptying of churches has financial implications for the revenue of the instuitution.
However, do we ever stop to consider that it is not that folk are leaving the church, but that the churches are leaving the people. Many folk are struggling to find a church where we can expect expositional preaching, where the Word is Preached, rather than a pseudo-theraphy lesson is propounded, or a pop-psychology ¿story¿ replaces a Bible based sermon. People need the genuine expression of the Word, not a fresh expression of trendy ¿feel-good¿ meetings. We go to church to worship God, not the latest methodologie or trendy programme. People need the Word of God, not the latest trends fueled by the individual politics of conformed ¿churches¿ who prefer ¿isms & ologies¿ to the more demanding words of scripture. Falling numbers does not equate to a loss of faith in God, but could be a signal that a church that concentrates on its own ¿navel¿ is no longer fit for purpose! Indeed, it is not so much a church as a gathering of the likeminded, and th eman-centred methodologies and expressions are driving thirsty people away. Once again I raise the need for a deeper appraciation of vocation rather than a career option. The vocation to serve God is not restricted to ¿status¿, ¿position¿ or ¿job-title¿ ¿ and the decision to serve is not our choice ¿ it is God¿s choice! We may choose a career, and we rightly expect to be treated equally by our employer, with a chance to rise through the ranks if we have the skills and gifts to do so. In our world this is or needs to be the aim of any equality policy, or law. When we enter the church, we are not entering a career. Those persons who have the gifts to serve God and His people will rise to a position that God wanst them to be, this will not be the same expectation we may have in any worldy occupation. We do not choose the place were we will serve from nor should we follow our own ambition or ¿career plan¿. If we do we are simply seeking to conform to the world, and its way of doing things. Those who seek to hold to the authority of the Bible, the Word of God may appear to be, in your words Martin, ¿die hard-traditionalist¿ , but I think your premise is a false one ¿ You appear to assume that people would flock to church if the church modernised itself! They will be attracted by entertainment and self-help theraphy replacing the Word of God, but the place they flock to is no longer a Church!
The church has failed a large section of the community, and has almost given up on its mission to reach out to community, whereas political correctness and confrmity to the worlds has increased in its manipulation of the politics within the church. A divided house will not stand, a church with the Word has its foundation will fall but God¿s Word will not Fall. The church needs a New Reformation, one that rids it of its conformity to the world and witness it service to the poor, the lonely, the grieving rather than consoling itself with conference after conference about the various ¿isms and ologies¿ or methods and programmes ¿ draw near to God and He will draw near to you ¿ this is a promise for each individual Christ calls, and it is a message for His Church today!”

“"The opposition to women points to sexism and discrimination. There were many more serious problems that wanted discussion, mainly the decline of the Church of England Faith and the emptying churches."

Many would say that these are the same thing surely? Most people want to see capable men and women given an equal chance to be in senior roles. Organisations that do not want this are naturally shunned by all except diehard traditionalists: hence emptying churches.”

“The answer to why one wonders about division and decline may often be found in the human tendency to lean to our own wisdom ¿ and become so wise in our own eyes we fail or even refuse to listen to others and become a house divided. I hesitate to quote scripture, but in this case I believe it is within context:

¿If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other¿ And, ¿idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions¿¿(Galatians 5.15; 5.20).

The politic of power and conformity have long since ceased the leaders of the Church. It is further weakened by a growing dependency upon the methodologies, programmes and ¿fresh expressions¿ of church ¿ when what is required is a genuine expression of the Faith. What is happening in the Church of England, and whom is it happening for? The overwhelming tendency to conform to the worlds agenda witnesses a growing weakness, and an inclination to see the church in terms of career rather than vocation. I do not know about the assertion to ¿beat the drum¿. What is required is a renewal of mind, and non-conformity to the trends and agendas of the worlds, to be transformed rather than conformed. Then we will be able to test and discover what God¿s will is for God¿s Church. Until then we will lean too much on our own wisdom!”