“"by LoughbSunday, February 12 2012, 3:33PM
@J_Francis1

You have just converted me to the UAF I've seen the light so no more EDL for me. Oh wait that must mean the UAF must be Nazis now even you, OMG OMG what will are leaders say at the SWP?"


I've hardly mentioned the UAF and even then it was mostly in response to others mentioning them. So far it has been you lot that have brought up the BNP and the SWP, not me. A load anti-white stereotypes have also been produced and claimed, falsely, that I believe in. Really therefore all of you are doing is spouting the standard far right arguments and trying to make it appear as if I've said something I haven't.

The BNP - first mentioned by LisaMarie1976 February 10 2012, 7:45PM. Mentioned again by tazzyboy1 at February 11 2012, 9:07AM. I only said anything about the BNP in response to them.

SWP - first mentioned by Loughb February 12 2012, 3:33PM.

As for Nazis and the UAF, CraigLeics9 was using the words white and English interchangeably, meaning that race and nation are the same. That is Nazi ideology as I pointed out.
The first time I mentioned the UAF was to pre-empt any attempts at saying all the violence wasn't caused by them at the previous EDL demo in Leicester, so I gave the police report on them and left it at that. Then CraigLeics9 came along and stuck his open letter up which made that very accusation (he mentioned a load of other groups too) as well as him dragging up Bolton, so I responded to him. See although I don't support the UAF I'm a stickler for the truth.

Since then I think the only time I mentioned them was saying if the city must bear the cost of the EDL demo, then in fairness it should also bear the cost of the UAF demo, but again that was in response to LisaMarie1976 bringing them up. In fact it's the EDL supporters on here who keep mentioning them, not me because I'm not a UAF supporter. But of course to the EDL everyone who isn't either EDL or another far right group is UAF, especially if they don't like the EDL!

Seeing as the UAF aren't nationalists, don't persecute a religious minority, don't believe that one culture is superior to all others, aren't militaristic, aren't lead by an absolute leader, don't have a personality cult, don't hate ethnic minorities and left wingers, and don't oppose trade unions, I'd say they're not Nazis. However that's fairly similar to the EDL.

Ah well enjoy your time on message boards, because this is your escape from the reality that the EDL is finished and on its knees.”

“@J_Francis1

You have just converted me to the UAF I've seen the light so no more EDL for me. Oh wait that must mean the UAF must be Nazis now even you, OMG OMG what will are leaders say at the SWP?”

“"by typhun666Saturday, February 11 2012, 9:39PM
It's people like J_francis that make the EDL look like a pack or racist thugs when infact that isn't the case,"

Any proof that isn't the case? What's this then? http://tinyurl.com/89ldke7

"He told the defendants: "You were acting as a vain racist mob, shrieking and shouting racist abuse for no reason whatsoever. You were fuelled by drink and it is perfectly clear from your demeanour as shown by the CCTV that you were completely and utterly out of control and you humiliated those Turkish men who were performing a public duty in that takeaway outlet, screaming at them, terrorising them."

Andrew Ryan is Carlisle is part of the EDL's Carlisle Division, as are several of the others. They were celebrating him getting released from prison for burning the Koran and now they're back inside with him. Apparently many in the EDL are hailing them as heroes. Anything to say about that? I could start to go through the massive list of EDLers who've been locked up for inciting racial hatred or committing criminal acts of a religious or racial nature, but I'd run out of space on here.

"stop inciting arguments with posts or don't post at all."

Ah, here we go! Freedom of speech EDL style! "You can say what we like as long as we agree with it." The EDL seem to go round saying on every available media, from current affairs programmes to internet chat rooms, saying that they don't have free speech (the irony is lost on them). Additionally they say they are defending free speech. However if you dare to say something they don't like and it's "You're a troll, shut up!"

The only reason arguments are starting is because yourself and others want everyone to believe that the EDL are lovely, kind, peaceful folks. The sort who'd run a village fête or have tea and cucumber sandwiches on the vicarage lawn. That's why Craig Leicester wrote that load of rubbish to the local businesses about how peaceful the EDL are and blaming others for the violence as usual.

All of you know that the EDL are violent and contains loads of racists. The Liverpool and Wigan divisions have now broken off and are near enough hardcore Nazis. Even at the Leicester demo an EDLer gave a Nazi salute. He wasn't thrown out of the demo or anything. Loads of EDLers have convictions for violence. Do you think that by keeping up this ridiculous pretence you can lull the general public into sharing your delusions? It won't work because most people haven't heard of you and those that have associate you with violence, racism and Breivik. Oh, or they mistake you for football hooligans.”

“Oh by the way. When Tommy Robinson was given a suspended sentence for assaulting an ex-soldier in Blackburn, did the judge give him that sentence because he is black or a Muslim, because last time I checked he was neither? Also the EDL were happily admitting he did it at the time, but saying he was innocent when he was arrested!
http://tinyurl.com/88m52c3”

“"When the seed is planted, whether mitigation is taken into account anymore or not, if you are half as wise as you like to make out you will know where im coming from with that."

The judge does not have to accept whatever mitigation the defence comes up with. Are you saying the judge will subconsciously accept whatever lame excuse the defendant tries to use? You don't have any evidence that the judgement was influenced by that at all, you just want that to be the case so you can whinge about a "two tier system" a lot and have a demo. http://tinyurl.com/7qsu7ku

"In sentencing the women, Judge Robert Brown made no reference to their drinking or their religion."

That is something that the defence tried using that failed, but has been picked up by sensationalist tabloids who have got the far right into a foaming frenzy, by pretending that that was the reason the judge gave for not jailing them.

"And on top of any of that, regardless of which paper it was that was present in the court, the judge stated that for kicking in the head you would "normally go to jail" (loose quote before you start) so why not,"

The actual quote is - "This was ugly and reflects very badly on all four of you. Those who knock someone to the floor and kick them in the head can expect to go inside, but I'm going to suspend the sentence." He suspended the sentence because in his opinion the boyfriend used disproportional force.

"and dont you for one minute tell me about excessive force because you and i and anyone who understands the laws of self defence and has seen that video can only come to one conclusion"

I'm not a judge are you? The laws of self defence are that the force used in defence must be proportional. The judge's decision was that the boyfriend used excessive force, he has decades of legal experience and we aren't in a position to say that he was wrong by looking at the same video. He's an expert and we aren't basically.

What you are saying is that the judge thought "Mmmm, they're black and Muslims. Better let them off because they're not used to alcohol. I'll not say that in my judgement though, I'll say the boyfriend used excessive force."

How come when the victim of an assault is black and the perpetrators are white you don't hold a demo if the accused are given suspended sentences? The tabloids would never devote as much time to it either.”

“"by CraigLeics9Saturday, February 11 2012, 8:39PM
the long and short is j, francis ( i know who you are now and it would make sense what with your comments being so desperately out of touch)."

And I am....?

"Ive been striking a nerve with you lot for quite some time now havent i? oh dear is that because im not what you say i am. Your posts were removed for defamation would be my "guess" and when that happens you just become even more desperate!"

Are a member of Casuals United? Are you a football hooligan? Those are questions not accusations by the way.

You under your real name were trying to get the Baby Squad (the local Leicester hooligans) interested in the EDL. I'm not particularly sure as to what is you're not that we say you are, but that much is true for sure. Defamation, libel, in EDL terms is saying something that is true but that is embarrassing to them. Such as saying one of the founder members of the EDL is a paedophile and convicted sex offender, when the EDL are obsessed with Muslim/Asian paedophiles and ignore white paedophiles. Or saying that the EDL is far right, when the EDL denies it. Both those things are "libel" and "defamation", not because they are lies, but because they are true and embarrassing to the EDL.

"179 arrested for violence? how many complaints have been lodged against the city of westminster police and the met?"

There are two police forces in London, the Metropolitan Police and the City of London Police. That proves nothing, lodging a complaint is not proof of innocence. Considering some in the EDL were gloating about how hard Tommy Robinson headbutted that soldier, but once he was arrested everyone denied it happened, I really don't think you can claim that all those people who lodged complaints were therefore innocent of being violent.

"How many actual charges were pressed against EDL members? Something in my mind eeps shouting "to prevent" ,,, hmm im sure you know what i mean and oh by the way i WAS there and NO i WASNT arrested."

Yet you presented us with a video of 55 UAF getting arrested as proof the UAF are violent, despite only a handful being charged. Make your mind up. To prevent the EDL attacking the Occupy camp as they'd threatened to do.


""reasoned" ive tried and was your come bac not something to do with "super firms" "nazi" "racist"? hence your post being removed and the mercury following up with an article about defamation."

Casuals United is a hooligan "super firm" and you get thanked personally on their blog, which is entwined with the EDL http://tinyurl.com/7m3xns9
I don't think I've typed "Nazi" at any point.

"J francis stop making yourself look silly, take a breath before ranting back, because even this paper stated that the argument was used in mitigation for one of the accused."

By the defence: the judge did not use it in making his judgement. Don't you understand how the law works? A gang of 11 EDL supporters has just been jailed in Carlisle and the barrister for Andrew Ryan, the "hero" who burned the Koran in Carlisle, claimed that he was drunk and the alcohol impaired his judgement as his defence. Ryan's drunkenness was used in mitigation, but it had no effect on the judgement. Get it?”

“"by tazzyboy1Saturday, February 11 2012, 9:14AM
"J-Francis1 Also like i said earlier, you are marked down simply because you are offensive to other posters from the off at it were, instead of entering into reasoned discussion you immediately launch into a venomous attack, spitting your vitriol at them like a benzadrine puff adder which then immediately puts them (us) on the defensive, you are the architect of your own unpopularity."

Offensive to pro-EDL posters, no-one else. Initially I had lots of green arrows on my comments, but once all the pro-EDL comments started on here a couple of days ago, all those same comments suddenly went from lots of green arrows to dozens of red arrows. So how come my posts that most people were agreeing with suddenly became offensive? You can only vote once on a post, so either there are dozens of pro-EDL types on here marking down posts or people have been clearing their cookies. Either way the content of those comments did not change, only the general reaction to them.

What I have stated has been perfectly factual and I have shot down various EDL lies, that's all. As for "reasoned discussion" you accused Cllr Ross Wilmott of being full of his own self importance and far left for his criticism of the EDL.”

“"by tazzyboy1Saturday, February 11 2012, 9:07AM
J_Francis1 There is nothing so blind as blind faith, and that is just what you have in your views of the world and the EDL in particular, you accuse people of assuming!?!?"

No, my views are based on empirical evidence and academic research. The EDL, to anyone of a sound mind, are obviously violent bigots. Time and time again they can be seen attacking the police, journalists, businesses, private and public property, and places of worship. There is no use in questioning that because there have been literally hundreds of arrests and convictions for these things by the EDL.

"....but it is you yourself that is assuming that anyone on here who disagrees with you belongs to either the EDL or the BNP or at least supports them fully,"

I assume with perfect justification that anyone who defends the EDL and says that people should do their homework/research are an EDL supporter. I also assume with reasonable justification that anyone who says media outlets who criticise the EDL are "far left" and uses the same rhetoric as the EDL, are also either EDL or fellow travellers of the EDL. I've never mentioned the BNP, although now both you and LisaMarie1976 have mentioned them in relation to what I've said. Is that a sign of a guilty conscience?

"it is my view sir/madam (is that ok for you or is that not pc enough??) that you have your head so far up your own backside that only an operation by experts (remember them:-) can possibly remove it, i think Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms J_Francis1 that you are whats commonly known to all of us as a "know all" and i would suggest 'a bit of a loner' because, as you can see from the decent amount of views on here that disagree with you (about 90% i would say) i'll bet you are one hell of a bore in real life"

And you say I talk a load of rubbish. That's a lame ad hominem attack, not even a remotely intelligent argument.


"J-Francis1 Just try, just once to see another point of view, it is'nt always a black and white (sic) argument i can promise you, as i have stated in another post, i try to look at both sides of a discussion, it does,nt always make me correct (or wrong for that matter) but it broadens your view."

I do see other people's point of view, but you have said that people who are critical of the EDL are "far left", which isn't exactly a rational attempt to look at both sides of an argument, surely?

"Instead of being steadfast in your views, consider others opinions BEFORE you rubbish them and accuse people that you know absolutely nothing about of belonging to organisations that you abhor,"

What, so I shouldn't have any firm views in case they conflict with someone else's? You know nothing about me, yet have just thrown a string of baseless insults at me in this very post! If someone is expressing sympathy for an organisation and is condemning of criticism, then I tend to take the position that they are either of that organisation or are sympathetic to it.

"and even if they do belong to the EDL or the BNP, what b****y business is it of yours?,"

OK, tell you what, if the EDL stops being Islamophobic and causing trouble all over the country, and the BNP stops trying to establish a Fourth Reich, I'll leave their members alone and mind my own business. Sound fair?

"who made you keeper of the nations morals?"

Are you seriously saying that I'm being pompous in objecting to a gang of bigoted hooligans trashing towns? The nation, of which I am a part of, morally speaking opposes the EDL and you have no right to claim that I have no free speech with which to express my morals. Or are you going to say no English person has the right to criticise the EDL in their own country now?”

“"by LisaMarie1976Friday, February 10 2012, 7:45PM
"How typical that you assume that because i said i was white and English you assumed i was a member of the EDL. I suppose you also think because im white i must vote BNP, have a bulldog, football hooligan partner, sit in a pub getting drunk and spill out into the night to find the nearest kebab house as well."

Why would I believe that? I'm white, don't support the EDL, don't vote BNP, don't have a bulldog or a football hooligan partner, and I don't drink through the night in a pub and then find the nearest kebab shop. That's YOU projecting your own stereotypes of white people. I was questioning something you said that sounded as if you were associating being white with being English. You are the one who keeps mentioning being white, not me.
The reason I thought you were EDL has nothing to do with you being white and English (you have the cheek to claim I put words in your mouth), but you saying this:

"Im angry at times that people hear those letters EDL and assume that it means hate and violence to all that are not from a white english background. Its very ignorant people that have no sense to actually see what the EDL stand for and the jusice they are fighting for that will help everyone at the end of the day."

A massively pro-EDL statement. See, that could lead someone to think that you were a member of the EDL.


"You might as well have if you wasnt because you have just insulted me as a woman, that you believe i dont have my own mind and formed my own opinions on here."

Pardon? Now you are projecting your negative stereotype of women on me. I challenged what you said as regards the defendants in the Rhea Page case and questioned what you meant by white men fighting to keep England English. All you've done so far is throw a lot of racist and sexist stereotypes about white people and women around and claimed they're mine, which they most definitely aren't.

"I am free to speak my mind on here, and speak about what is true without you assuming that you know what im thinking and who i support or follow."

Who's stopping you? You expressed support for the EDL ergo I had every reason to assume you are an EDL supporter.

"Do your homework and find out how much we all pay from our pockets for celebrations that happened over the city that are not from my culture, and i wont attend. Yet my hard earnt wages helped pay for them."

You won't attend stuff that isn't from your culture: who's stopping you? No-one. So it's not that you are prevented from attending, you just don't want to. That's your hard luck if you don't wish to enjoy what your taxes pay for. Ever occurred to you that Leicester has a high number of people from cultures other than yours who pay their taxes? The EDL march was for people from places as far away as London and Dorset, who don't pay a bean towards Leicester.

"Also my taxes paid for a peaceful EDL march and the UAF March...both which i believe should be free to voice their opinions."

They are free to voice their opinions, but no-one other than the EDL heard their opinions because they were done in an isolated location surrounded by police. Why the need for the marches and the city centre being shut down?

"Do you also feel that the money spent policing the UAF march was wrong or was that well spent because its something you feel was worth listening to."

If the EDL weren't there the UAF wouldn't have been there either. I didn't get to hear their speeches, but as I said no EDL = no UAF. If the city has to spend money on one then in fairness it should spend money on both.

"My point is This is England...a free country with free speech..and that is mine"

No-one's stopping you from having free speech, but you seem angry that I'm exercising my free speech and questioning or refuting what you've said.”

“"by LisaMarie1976Friday, February 10 2012, 7:21PM
"Did i say that j Francis...did those words come out of my mouth..that im suggesting he fought for this country to keep it WHITE...but yet again..the conclusions are jumped to...and maybe now as a white woman having an opinion about her own nationality and country i must be a rasist....pathetic and it dont waste your time even typing it...but very typical"


You're the one who keeps mentioning white people, as if skin colour had some sort of relevance in these matters, and going on about white men fighting to keep this country English. In fact it would appear to be that it is the EDL and their fellow travellers on here who have the obsession with skin colour. As a woman who keeps mentioning the fact she is white and that the people who have made this country what it is being white, it could be said that you are fixated with skin colour.
Just explain this for me.

"I am white english and i am from a long family line of white english people and for that i am very proud and i would never change that for the world. My grandfathers and their fathers fought in the wars to make sure this very soil we all from different nationalities stand on today remain English"

By English do you mean white English or do you mean black English, Asian English, etc?”