“hmmm, leicester said:
"What utter lies!!!"
Please specify where I have lied.

hmmm, leicester also said:
"If you truly believe that there is no god.. faith etc why go around widely publisiing utter crap on adverts etc. You just excel in making people miserable and giving them no hope".

I would suggest that religion in general far excels secularism in "making people miserable". Going around worrying about whether or not you are going to end up in hell is not a good way of feeling joyful. I believe this is a particular problem with the Muslim population as well as the more literalist interpretations of Christianity.

hmmm, leicester also said:
"And yes you do focus on christianity as you see it as weak and unable to answer back".

Christianity "weak and unable to answer back"? Please pull the other one. For a start you are answering back (and I would strongly defend your right to do so). Lets see - 26 Bishops in the House of Lords, a free column for the Bishop in the Mercury each week, "Thought for the Day" every morning on Radio 4, in most state schools a Christian form of worship every day is prescribed by law, predominant religion in Religious Education syllabus, 70% of the population being believers (according the the last census). I could go on.”

“John Loughborough.. What utter lies!!! If you truly believe that there is no god.. faith etc why go around widely publisiing utter crap on adverts etc. You just excel in making people miserable and giving them no hope. And yes you do focus on christianity as you see it as weak and unable to answer back. Its cowardly that you don't pick on those who get offended much more easily in a city like Leicester. the trouble is as christians they are told to turn the other cheek, so they wouldn't say anything back and extremist secularists like you portray yourself here as get away with it.”

“"A person's faith is determined by what that person thinks and feels. Only an individual can decide whether they are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever. It's nothing to do with going to church or praying or believing in a deity, it's simply what you yourself feel inside.

Mike, Leicester"

Sorry Mike, but you're wrong. You can be a thoroughly cultural christian, take part in christian rituals, have a christian ethos, and use the Bible as your manual to life, the universe, and everything, but, and this is a big but, none of these things by themselves make you a Christian. To be a Christian you need to meet certain minimal necessary criteria, one of which is believing in God.

If you don't believe in god(s) you are by definition an atheist, no matter how much you dislike the term. Just as in the same way by virtue of being a human being you a mammal whether you like it or not.”

“hmmm, leicester said "Kulgan has a point. Isn't it about time these particular secularists are had for religious discrimination? That will wipe the smile off their faces, and their enjoyment in convincing people that there is no god, but not offering any alternative".

Not sure how Leicester Secular Society http://www.lsec.org.uk could be "had" for religious discrimination. The talks at the Hall include people from all backgrounds. Tomorrow (3/2/11) Dilwar Hussain, Head of the Policy Research Centre at the Islamic Foundation, Markfield, Leicestershire (http://www.islamic-foundation.org.uk/User/Home.aspx) will be giving a talk on "British Secularism and Religion".

I think it is also incorrect to accuse the members of Leicester Secular Society of only ever targetting Christianity for criticism. Take a look at the letter "Islam: A lifestyle choice" http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/letters/Islam-lifestyle-choice/article-3158705-detail/article.html. However, based on the census, Christianity is be far the largest religious group and it is the established religion. Removing religious privilege is at the core of secularism and so an established church will always be something that the Society opposes.

As to "any alternative", this is what it says on the membership application form:
"Challenging religious privilege and dogma: We advocate the separation of religion and state, proper representation of people with no religion, the ending of privileges for religious organisations and the secularisation of ¿faith¿ schools. We challenge religious teachings that divert people away from reality.

Defending rationalism and free speech: We believe people should be free to express and publish their beliefs, however controversial, without fear of prosecution, persecution or physical harm, as long as they accord the same rights to others. Anyone should be prepared to submit their views to vigorous debate, questioning of their evidence and testing of their conclusions.

Working for justice and fairness: We believe our efforts should be devoted to the elimination of human misery, injustice, poverty and ignorance in the world as it is here and now. We oppose unfair discrimination, bigotry and coercion based on factors such as beliefs, racial or ethnic origins, disability, sex, age, sexuality or lifestyle.

Promoting a morality for life: We believe moral values and virtues like fairness, kindness, loyalty and honesty arise from people needing to live together in peace and harmony, not from any religion. Moral rules must be judged by their consequences for people now, not by their appearance in the ¿holy¿ writings of ancient societies.”

“Kulgan has a point. Isn't it about time these particular secularists are had for religious discrimination? That will wipe the smile off their faces, and their enjoyment in convincing people that there is no god, but not offering any alternative.”

“"I'm not a believer but I'm going to put christian to prevent any "other" faiths getting even more rights than they already have!!!!!
Lee, Leicester"

Lee, first of all you sound incredibly ignorant. Unless you actually want non-Christian faiths to have *less* rights than those afforded to Christianity, it sounds like you actually seem to think that they have *more* rights at present!!!

Under the Equality Act 2010 not only are all individuals who have a faith protected from discrimination (regardless of faith) but people with NO faith or belief are afforded the same protection.

I hope you realise how petty and vindictice you sound by your statement of intent. If you aren't religious why do you prioritise Christianity above other religions?”

“According to the 2010 British Social Attitudes Survey, those who profess no-religion as an identity have risen from 31% to 43% between 1983 and 2008. Yet the 2001 census data suggests that this figure is only 14.8%. The Census also concluded that there were more Jedis than Jews. This the reason for the Secular Society campaign.

The Society is NOT singling out Christians, since there are plenty other people who might identify themelves as Muslims or Hindhus without really being believers. Religion is a belief and you cannot really still be a Christian/Hindhu/Muslim/Jew if you cease to believe.”

“Or maybe it is just a way to prove that christianity is all but gone in the UK and that the majority faith is now Muslim, Sharia law anyone!?? the article clearly says "inaccurate figures, which are then used to justify policies that "do not reflect the real demographics of our society" and they said it could never happen.....”

“Many here seem to be attacking Kulgan when all he has done it point out that the LSS have directly referred to Christianity, which they have, in what is still a Christian country. Would they try the same attack against the Jewish community in a Jewish country. No, they would be classed as anti-semetic (apologies if that is spelt wrong). Would they attack Islam in a strong Muslim country, no they probably wouldn't' The D


That's because Christianity is the official state religion and Anglican bishops sit in the house of lords so they are the only religion that has seats reserved for them in Parliament. Also, most Arab states are secular in nature and regularly clamp down on rogue religiousgroups much harder than we do. When people say muslim states they think Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Yemen etc but what about islamic countries like Jordan, Oman, Turkey and Bosnia where both the government and local people have little tolerance for religious extremism.”

“So we have jedi but not pagan, now that's discrimination. Especially when you consider paganism pre-dates christianity.

As it is I am with 'the D' I have no religion but neither would I go as far as saying I'm an atheist, shouldn't there be a box for that.

A 'maybe' perhaps.”