Rome can help other churches find authority

“Once again Sorengadfly, you had me up until the end. You accuse me of making assumptions and that is what I feel you have done with the assertion " Yet, Job believed it to be true because he had faith in God". Perhaps he thought the world was round because he had seen the curvature of the horizon from the top of a mountain? Now I am speculating, but it's no less valid than your answer.”

“Thank god he's gone......”

“We are now so far from the original letter - I think it is time to draw this to a close... I will see you around...no doubt... take care...”

“DB - That is the worst display of opportunistic 'linking' of two unrelated areas I have witnessed to date. Don't blame you for trying... but it does reveal a kind of desperation?”

“By Sorengadfly "Most of these were ignored by the Church, yet somehow their writings made it into early history books as being the "official Christian viewpoint." It happens!"

Does this not make you question the validity of anything written then or before then?”

“By Sorengadfly: You said it yourself… the book of Job is believed to be the oldest book written approx' 2,000, 2,500years before Christ. We are both aware of the impact of labelling and that too often Christianity has often been held responsible for promoting the flat Earth theory. Yet, it was only a handful of so-called intellectual scholars throughout the centuries, claiming to represent the Church, who held to a flat Earth. Most of these were ignored by the Church, yet somehow their writings made it into early history books as being the "official Christian viewpoint." It happens!
In fact, not only did the church not promote the flat Earth, it is clear from such passages as Isaiah 40:22 that the Bible implies it is spherical. (Non-literal figures of speech such as the "four corners of the Earth" are still used today.) The Bible of course teaches the correct shape of the earth. Isaiah 40:22 says God sits above "the circle of the earth" (the Hebrew word for "circle" can also mean a "sphere"). Also, Luke 17:34-36 depicts Christ's Second Coming as happening while some are asleep at night and others are working at day-time activities in the field-an indication of a rotating earth with day and night at the same time. Earth was described has a globe in space in the book of Job in the Old Testament, some 2,000 years before Christs and approximate 3,500 years before the Greeks belief was affirmed. Yet, Job believed it to be true because he had faith in God. Once again, Faith is often the trust in things not seen for ourselves, but discovered through trust in a greater source of knowledge." From God (the heart of all knowledge=Science) through Faith (the Gift of God) to God (the only true constant).”

“Sorengadfly you had me until the last sentence. That I saw as a massive leap of faith which I could not make.

One thing I would like clarification on is this bit; "Earth was described has a globe in space in the book of Job in the Old Testament, he believed it to be true because he had faith in God" What does faith in god have to do with believing the earth is round?

I know the quote from Job 26: "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them. He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it. He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end."

It was written almost 1500 years before Christ. The part I am having a hard time with is what relevance it has to god.”

“The difference is different... (ie 'sun and son') Good to see your sense of humour exercised.

"Yes, I do believe the sun rises and sets each day. I have seen it with my own eyes and science can explain the phenomenon we perceive as rising and setting."

Yet, we know that it does not 'Rise or Set' - we perceive it to be so, and when we refer to either we are not lying, or deliberately misrepresenting what we believe to be true - we are simply describing that which we 'know' or believe to be true from our experience. And we have faith in science. Earth was described has a globe in space in the book of Job in the Old Testament, he believed it to be true because he had faith in God. Faith is often the trust in things not seen for ourselves, but discovered through trust in a greater source of knowledge.”

“Soregadfly I have not assumed anything, I am just taking what you said and reminding you of it. On the "Christ may also be a 'fairy tale'" thread you said (on 25 June at 1:41pm) "The Bible is the Holy Word of God, inspired and God Breathed – IT IS the literal Truth! To say otherwise is to ignore the evidence of Natural Theology and Spiritual lives of over 2.1bn people alive today"

Granted, you said "literal truth" opposed to "I believe it literally", however the difference is negligible. It is a fairly lofty statement to state something is a literal truth.

Yes, I do believe the sun (not to be confused with the son - see, I do have a sense of humour) rises and sets each day. I have seen it with my own eyes and science can explain the phenomenon we perceive as rising and setting.”

“Allstar – Once again what you assume becomes a fact – when and where have I referred to the Bible as literal? I have stated that I believe the Bible to be the Word of God, Inspired by the God, God breathed. I have stated by belief in the Apostle Creed, and I have affirmed I believe God to be trustworthy and does not break His promises. If you want to know what God is like – then look to the Son, Jesus Christ. Can I ask you a question – Do you believe the Sun rises and sets?”