Sceptic taking the Bible too literally?
Alan Pendragon suggests (Mailbox, February 4) that we should not rely upon the Bible to discover how the Universe works.
He goes on to describe some accounts in the Bible as "unmitigated rubbish". Yet how else could this book have been written? A major scientific work would not be appropriate, and neither is it necessary, since man has demonstrated that he is able to discover what he needs to know.
The believer believes God created science in the first place and the work of presenters like Brian Cox, while not necessarily proving anything new, does draw attention to just how amazing the creation is.
But to answer the points made by Alan Pendragon:
We cannot prove that the world was not created in six days. Conditions were very different then. In any case at what point was time created? Scientists may agree that if only we could travel at the speed of light, we might live for ever, so how long creation took might seem less important.
As regards the quotations from Job, 9 and 38 , today we often refer to projects in terms of building on firm foundations, and this is the way God was telling the story to Job. To suggest that mountains actually hold up the sky, can be easily tested by climbing up the nearest one and seeing what is on top!
Similarly, to refer to the Earth having four corners is okay. Even today our maps are flat, rectangular and have four corners!
This star in Revelation refers to an event rather than an actual star. For instance I remember what I read in this newspaper after the Chernobyl incident. The name Chernobyl in Russian translates as "wormwood", so I think Job, 8: 10-11 describe exactly what happened in Russia!
Indeed "we may never know the whole truth, but what a beautiful journey it is searching for it".
Nigel Mutimer, Coalville.
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by ecatflap
Tuesday, February 21 2012, 9:44PM
“"It's quite obvious that I can't compete with a comedian like yourself sorengadfly, after all you have so much more comedic material to source your act from. shame it was written two thousand years ago and has been regurgitated since than.
Having said that.....
I don't come on here to score points or even convert anyone but to at least point out that there are other ways to live one's life without religion.
The second part contradicts the first part.”
by DBLeicester1
Monday, February 20 2012, 6:02PM
“2 quotes:
@DB – Defending my Faith is not arrogant
I don't need a "smokescreen" and I have nothing to defend.
| give up.......”
by Bullseye2
Monday, February 20 2012, 5:30PM
“Sorengadfly,
I asked you about the concept of original sin without Adam & Eve which we know didn't exist so neither of those posts addressed that problem. Instead of copying Rc Sproul could you try and answer the question.”
by Sorengadfly
Monday, February 20 2012, 1:07PM
“I don't need a "smokescreen" and I have nothing to defend... that's all folks...”
by Jani88
Monday, February 20 2012, 11:11AM
“Thanks for the reply Sorengadfly. You make some good points but sometimes I am not sure why you always refer to God? It is nice to have your faith and I respect that but sometime would ask why every debate you have comes back to God? I can't help but feel you use religion as a 'smokescreen' to defend your comments.”
by Sorengadfly
Monday, February 20 2012, 9:46AM
“@Jani88 – Quite simple – answer other posts…
@DB – Defending my Faith is not arrogant? I am simply stating my status – what others believe is up to them; God does not need me or anyone to believe in Him to exist. Did you read my reply to Johncatt? I am not "multiplying posting" – I am seeking to address each of the post addressed to me – perhaps, just perhaps you might recognise that if four people questioned you, you would have more people to post to – hence "multiple posting" – Simple mathematics? So simple it exposes your attempt to score-points with you petty last sentence – it wasn't necessary, and wasn't even relevant! I believe this subject is open to many, many more debates but this particular stream has now come to a close – for now, I am sure we shall all engage again in others in the future. Thank you all for some interesting comments, particularly Johncatt and others who displayed a sense of humour and respect. I wish you all well, until we meet again – take care.”
by DBLeicester1
Sunday, February 19 2012, 5:25PM
“"Different is not wrong" – there is an acceptation to this and on this occasion it is when that which is "different" contradicts absolute Truth=God; then it is not only 'different' it is False.
And you say you're not arrogant.
johncatt stated
" As a Humanist I don't believe in any god, but I always have at the back of my mind that I might be wrong. However, as a working hypothesis, I start from the basis that I am right and will argue robustly for my point of view.
One of the dangers in religion is that its adherents believe that they are absolutely right. A bit of self doubt might stop people flying into building yelling "god is great".
That is exactly the point many are trying to get over to you.
As for your last @DB post, it doesn't address anything especially your allegations of me being a member of a particular group, it's just repeated material from not only this topic but from others in the past. Multiple posting doesn't make you right... he who shouts loudest probably has the least to say?”
by Jani88
Sunday, February 19 2012, 4:27PM
“@ Sorengadfly – May I ask why all the posts?”
by Sorengadfly
Sunday, February 19 2012, 4:26PM
“Johncatt – I believe that any kind of fundamentalism that does not respect the differences of others and uphold the dignity of people is akin to fascism. And is an extremely dangerous distortion and warped lie whatever its pronounced faith, including Christianity! I agree with your sentiments regarding the dangers of such unjustifiable actions and hatred.
John, my most expressed prayer is has follows – Lord I believe, help mine unbelief, the heart that does not doubt does not know the Grace of Faith assured – Faith assured not by superiority but by service and sacrifice. Thanks for the invite, it is duly noted and thanks for the link and your thought-provoking posts. Take care. Sorengadfly.”
by johncatt
Sunday, February 19 2012, 3:07PM
“Sorengadfly said: "I believe in Absolute Truth – God."
(BTW thank you for your post re. the Secular Society).
This is where we differ fundamentally. As a Humanist I don't believe in any god, but I always have at the back of my mind that I might be wrong. However, as a working hypothesis, I start from the basis that I am right and will argue robustly for my point of view.
One of the dangers in religion is that its adherents believe that they are absolutely right. A bit of self doubt might stop people flying into building yelling "god is great".
BTW Secular Society meetings are open to all and we don't roast (at least not physically :-) ) any visitors. All shades of opinion are welcome so long as guests do not shout others down. You might be interested to come along to 75 Humberstone Gate this evening at 5pm where the talk is entitled "Between Dawkins and God" by John Holroyd. He will be analysing the claims of the new atheism regarding Islam. He is a teacher and contributor to New Philosophy Magazine. See http://tinyurl.com/7seczgt .”