Sir David Attenborough says humans are a 'plague on the Earth'

“I think you are confusing religion with the use of religion by unsrupulous politicans and other leaders (sometimes I have to say religious leaders too). Yes, the C of E has problems with women bishops. Other denominations do not (mine for example). But even in the C of E the argument is mostly about whether some callings are suitable for women. Personally I don't have a problem with it.
There is no doubt that is God's comandments were universally obeyed the world would be a better place. "Thou Shalt not Kill" is one of them, and there are no exceptopns to that. Not on the battlefield or in hospital, respect for human life must be maintained.
It therefore follows that those who murder for religious reasons are using religion for thier own ends, rather than actually sticking to the principles of their faith. If they didn't use that as an excuse they would use another, political ideology, whatever, in order to achieve their ends, usually the desire for power over others. It is therefore the desire to rule others that you should be condemning, not faiths that say that "all men (and women) are equal".
I belong to a church that is organised "bottom up". The highest authority is the local Church Meeting. Nobody can impose anything on anybody that they don't agree with, and anyone can walk away if they choose. Our mission is to show God's love to people, not to dominate or murder them.”

“@Stigman - I do not know of a single religion (although I do not have intimate knowledge of every religion) that does not class women as inferior and does not subjugate them under men. Yes we're build differently, for a reason, and I believe we are made to compliment one another, not for one to be socially superior. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Religion DOES subjugate women - 21st Century 'civilized' man will not allow FEMALE Bishop's - WHY NOT??? Surely the physical differences cannot prevent a woman carrying out the tasks required of a Bishop?

Throughout history has there ever been a poor religion? Poor Clergy? Preachers keep a full belly whilst telling the masses to repent and God will cure their hunger - BUNKUM!! (In the words of one of the best teachers from my childhood)

As for prophets and apostles being put to death for their beliefs, somewhat akin to current violence and atrocities in the Middle East where our young servicemen (among others) are laying down their lives for their beliefs?

Religion has to be the greatest mass murderer of our 'civilisation'. Personally, one belief - Do unto others......”

“You need to remembert too that many of those prophets and apostles were put to death rather than deny thier beliefs. There was terrible persecution of Christians in Rome for example. This happened not long after Christ's time, certainly within living memory. Would you be prepared to put your life on the line for a "fairy story". No me niether. So they must have seen something remarkable. Or were they all insane too?”

“@ Stigman; you are making your assertions on a false premise that the bible is factually true. At best it was compiled a few centuries after the events depicted within, and other tales possibly millenia afterwards. Compiled by men who wanted their religious doctrines to follow a specific path and engender a godfearing populace, submissive to the will of the holymen at the time.

Whilst these stories may have had some of their roots in historical events, and others were allegories to convey moral lessons or updates of older scriptures, nevertheless it was compiled, nay edited, adapted and rewritten to keep the masses in check and the clergy in power.

I suspect Jesus really existed, and I also think he was probably persecuted for trying to make a difference, but for who he was beyond that, is as they say, blind faith...”

“Praetorian, we are made different, male and female, for a reason. That does not mean that one is superior to the other or is to be "subjugated" as you put it. Only that they were made for different roles, which modern society prefers to confuse in the name of greed and profit.
As for the New Testament, you have to decide for yourself f007e whether it represents the truth. It has been rightly said that either Jesus was who he said he was, or he was insane. If you look at his life, he has to be one or the other. Since the NT is about Jesus, if he wasn't insane it must be God's message to us. And then you have to remember that there are many prophesies about him in the OT too, some of them incredibly accurate, made hundreds of years before he was born. Where did they come from?”

“How about couples have no more than 2 children, one to replace each parent? Makes sense to me but some cultures regard children as 'blessings' from a higher power. You only have to look at some families, they seem to have a child every other year or more until their fertility declines. Food shortages apart who wants to live in cramped and crowded conditions? Even if GM food were the answer who wants that?”

“Sir David is bang on the money. No politican dare mention the P word as they are scared of being labelled. But the reality will hit the earth one day. It is inevitable and only takes a bit of thought to work out that food for 6 billion will be totally insufficient for 12billion. And what about energy to keep warm and cook? Oh, I know ,trillons of wind farms , which take valuable farm land up.
We build on farm land every day and expect to import our food, well one day others will buy that food and we''ll be left with none. It will come in time, perhaps the next hundred or so years.
Unless a plague come first, or a strong flu virus.”

“stigman, how have you determined that the new testament represents 'truth' but the old testament doesn't? Did god say that? or is it just another human assumption?”

“The Bible? 'Holy' book of Fairy tales - aim? Subjugate females, intimidate the masses into compliance, make preachers/avid practitioners of said religion rich.

Big Bang/Theory of Evolution has it for me.

Why spend your whole life, batting for one team to die and find out either there was never ant team, or you were on the wrong one!”

“Well, I didn't want to get into arguments about religion but...

Preatorian - nothing in the Bible rules out the "Big Bang". In fact wasn't it mostly photons originally? "And God said "let there be light".

And no, f007e, we don't stone adulterers, we instead take our lead from how Jesus treated the woman he met who had been caught in adultery. Ie, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "Go, and sin no more". For Christians the New Testament and Christ's teachings take precedence.”