Tories have lost all respect from force

“Graham_LE8

You made unfavourable comments about my remarks to the police officer.

I trust you have now read my account of what actually happened.

So, someone runs to your house and tells you that a policeman is loading your car onto a pickup truck.

You know that your car is taxed, insured, tested and generally fully compliant with UK and European law.

The police officer refuses to examine any of the documents which prove this.

What would you have said and done ?

What would you have done during the four days the police refused to release your car from the pound – when they were actually threatening to crush the car if you did not pay them 400 pounds ?

And what would you have done, faced with this situation, if you had been a foreign visitor, with a limited command of English ?”

“Perhaps lollaw would care to explain why he writes a long post, giving an entirely fabricated version of events he knows nothing about, when the facts have already been clearly stated.

If I am to be defamed, the conversation will have to continue.”

“mark-et. You're right mate. Rant over. ENDEX ENDEX.”

“Boys and girls .Stop ! This baloons on sticks at 20 paces or just handbags at 20 paces.A serious issue,denied serious debate.GROW UP !”

“My reference to the heavy handed tactics police used under Thatcher were largely to emphasise that bapcavs statement was rather melodramatic regarding how police are regarded today.

I realise that the police of the time were not to a man thugs but it's the worst that are remembered the most. No disrespect intended.”

“bapcav: Thank you for your very detailed response to my recent post.
It would be unjust and unreasonable of me not to accept, without evidence to show otherwise, that every word of what you have written in connection with your being wrongly accused of a technical offence is true. On that basis I do therefore believe what you have stated, and agree totally that you were in the whole matter treated in a manner which reflects badly on the police officers involved.

However, I would make two points.
1/. I do not allow myself to be 'taken in' by what has been written by 'Lollaw', nor indeed by any
other who submits posts to this site. I do of course read every post when following a debate on a topic I find interesting enough to take part in, but the views I express are my own.
The exchanges between yourself and Lollaw have become somewhat acrimonious so I want to steer clear of becoming involved on that level.

2/. You write, "So, I have to admit that I am now less than impressed by the police". You then
mention two other incidents in Derbyshire and in Leicestershire, where officers "treated 'law- abiding' citizens appallingly". When you go on to write that "the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), pass all complaints back to the local force, who put huge pressure on the complainant to drop the matter, so making it almost impossible to have a complaint ratified", you do cause me to question the true depth of your involvement and knowledge of procedures adopted by the police.
Can you honestly say and know it to be true,that the IPCC pass ALL complaints back to the local
force ,"who put pressure on the complainant to drop the matter"? Forgive me for having doubts
but I do not think you can !

I believe you detract from the, in my opinion, sound value of your case of having been wrongly accused on the occassion you've high-lighted, by it would seem, digging around for as many examples as you can to show the police at their worst ? Thus giving me, and possibly others, the impression of you being anti police. Please believe me when I say that I could tell you lots and lots of true stories about outstanding acts carried out by police officers all over the country. This does not make up one iota for failure by any one officer to carry out their duties in an absolute correct and caring manner, but I make the point again, one should not 'paint all' with the same brush in any situation.

Personally I cannot see the newly to be elected PCCs being in any way any other than a total waste of money, plus politicisation of the police. Another example of Tory dogma, privatise for
the sake of it.”

“MacMonkey, I agree with some of your last post. I was part of Maggies Army and believe it or not, a lot of the Police Officers had some sympathy with the miners. Not the the ones who were trying to punch your lights out or were chucking bags of excrement etc. at you of course, but in general I found the ones that I met were just normal working blokes trying to save their jobs and communities. In fact, I got told off for wearing a 'Support Your Local Miners', sticker. My boss didn't think it was funny. I gave away so many buttons off my uniform, as souvenirs, that I had to sew new ones on off old tunics.
What was significant was that money was no object, I wonder if there was another crisis, all of a sudden the same thing would apply.
My beef with bapcav is his generalisation, I left the police because I was seriously injured, on duty. I had 8 Police officers, who I knew, killed on duty in my time in the force and I can't even count the number of injured. I saw active service in three theatres as a soldier and didn't loose that many mates. So, although Northants Police interpreted, what is a rather ambiguous law wrongly, it doesn't give bapcav the right to infer that people like me, or rebedubes son, or in fact the vast majority of cops are some sort of uncaring, unfeeling crooks.”

“Beyond your first post your contributions on here have nothing to do with the story and are really, really not very interesting. The only thing of relevance I've found is your statement that 'the relationship between the police and the general public is also at its lowest', at least it appeared relevant until reading the details of your own 'harrowing' experience at the hands of the police at which point it became clear that what you meant was 'the relationship between the police and bapcav is also at it's lowest'.

I would imagine that during the 70's / 80's where police were often no better than maggie's heavies the relationship was worse and of course in and around the aftermath of Hillsborough.

Of course that's me looking at things from a more general perspective rather than basing my whole opinion on something that happened to me personally.

The truth is that the publics main problem with the police these days is that are simply not enough of them and that won't improve with all these cuts.

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work that out.”

“Lollaw :
You keep trying to imply, in your dishonest way, that I am an EX-parish councillor because I was voted out.

If you had any brains, you would realise that, as I drive a foreign-registered vehicle, I spend much of my time abroad and therefore cannot serve as a councillor.

You´re not Sherlock Holmes are you !”

“reubedube :
There is a postscript to this.

I became aware that several entirely law-abiding European motorists had fallen victim to this scam, each being defrauded of over 400 pounds. I therefore publicized in English-language newspapers in France and Spain what was happening in Northamptonshire.

A lady living in France contacted me via a newspaper. She was in tears. Her very elderly mother was in a care home in Northampton, suffering from Alzheimer´s Disease. The lady, herself not young, had contacted the Northants Police to explain that she visited four times a year for ten days and asked for assurances that her car would not be "impounded." An inspector told her that, if the visits were spread over more than six months, he would personally make sure that her car WAS impounded.

Not only was he proposing to act illegally, but the callousness of his attitude was sickening. Sometimes you really do wonder if someone has the right to call himself a human being.

When the European Commission finally confirmed that they had told Northants to stop abusing Directive 83/182, she was the first person I contacted. I am proud of that, although I am sure, from the tone of his posts, that "Lollaw" would think it a job well-done if an old lady were to die alone while her daughter was stranded, her fully-legal car having been unlawfully taken from her by a police officer.

I am also pleased that I prevented other law-abiding ex-patriates and European visitors suffering the trauma of having their cars stolen and then being defrauded of 400 pounds.

So, I have to admit that I am now less than impressed by the police. I have experienced two other incidents, in Derbyshire and in Leicestershire, where officers have treated law-abiding citizens appallingly. I am also aware that the Independent Police Complaints Commission pass all complaints back to the local force, who put huge pressure on the complainant to drop the matter, so making it almost impossible to have a complaint ratified.

The recent revelations, particularly the Hillsborough and Ian Tomlinson cases, have led me to believe that there is a culture, not of great wrongdoing, but of "cover up," in the UK police, which needs to be independently addressed. This requires independent commissioners.

In my case, the Chair of the Police Authority was interested only in "minding the back" of the force, right or wrong. She had no interest in seeing that justice was done or that the Force acted properly.

I hope that explains my position and the reasons for it.”