“Seem to be a bit lat with this one but it needs to be said. The fact is that it did work. 20 months without an incident and then 2 (2! - not a mob or anyhting) idiots run amok. More to the point is the money wasted by Birstall Parish Council on expensive gates for the park which do nothing to tackle this kind of thing. And are now in need of a coat of paint incidentally.”

“Having got embroiled in debating the rights and wrongs of corporal punishment, I have got away from the main story.

To Mr Corbett, I think that getting the vandals and parents to cough up for the damage would be an excellent idea if they are caught. How would you feel about the perpetrators being forced to help with the cleaning up process or even doing the equivalent of community service with any of the regular jobs that need doing around the club, cutting the grass for example.

I know that some people would hate the idea of ever meeting those responsible, but in some cases seeing the damage and hurt that has been caused may have an effect, make them face up to what they have done. Of course I'm not naive enough to believe that everyone would respond to that, as some folk are too far gone so a lot would depend on who has actually committed this crime.”

“Sue, you have pretty much missed my point entirely - and JBs for that matter - being that you must look at all the facts of the case before deciding what to do.

How can anyone on this forum propose what to do with these criminals without knowing who they are, how old they are, whether they have previous etc, etc.

I have never said that I knew what to do, but I think I'm entitled to argue against the simplistic suggestion that physically assaulting someone is the answer.

Now seeing as I've answered your question, please answer mine.

I know Baby P is an extreme example of a child who suffered horrific abuse so perhaps thats an analogy best left alone, so instead look at what happened to Shannon Matthews, another well publicised case. We all think, poor kid, she wasn't physically abused but what she went through must have been traumatic, plus now she is aware she has a mother that has had no real love for her, a succession of different father figures most totally unsuitable role models, an environment where alcohol seemed to be viewed as one of the basic food groups and thats just what we know about!. Now if she was to go off the rails at some point would you honestly think, what this girl needs is good thrashing? Honestly?”

“Nice to hear from Mr Corbett on this issue. I would like to know what Mr Corbetts views are on these vandals? and if he thinks they are people that have been using the clubhouse already or if he thinks its non related. Im veyry sorry to hear that its going to cost so much to repair it all.”

“I wonder if the culprits or their parents will pay towards the damage they caused?, i have just had a bill for the temporay repair of the shutters £230 +vat and the new shutter will cost £790.Then there is the cost of replacing the bar,safe,till and the smashed window.”

“Ok matt, how do you propose these criminals are dealt with then?”

“Matt, Completely agree with you. Situations are usually a little more complicated than some people would have you believe.”

“The trouble is JB, for the majority out there things are just that black and white.

I know that this is off topic slightly, and i'm not saying it applies to the vandals in this case but hear me out. You look at the case of baby P, where his parents abused him in the most horrific ways imagineable. If a child that has grown up in a similar environment, perhaps even only suffering a fraction of what baby P did, and he then went onto turn into what most people on this site would describe as 'scum' - would you still say give them the birch - end of, or having heard what many refer to as their 'sob story' would you maybe look into ways of changing their behaviour that didn't involve beating them some more!

Often its the supposed 'do gooders' who find them selves in these difficult positions - its far harder to be judgemental when you know all the facts.”

“I find the phrase "end of." as used by Neil a useful signifier to the fact that you can completely disregard that person's opinion.”

“Ok Neil, will being birched stop them doing it again? or will it just make the problem worse - will their next offence be a violent one perhaps.

I'm not an expert but I don't suppose you are either. Perhaps you are right and that all we need to fix societies problems is to give all the 'scum' a good thrashing, but I wouldn't bet on it.

There is a presumption that lighter punishments and the absence corporal punishment is purely down to people feeling sorry for criminals and worrying about their human rights - but has it occurred to you that it might be because people discovered it wasn't working.

Finally I hope that people involved in this scheme aren't discouraged by what has happened, just because a couple of local youths did this doesn't mean that there aren't many others who appreciate and have had their lives improved by clubs efforts.”