“But this government , and the last, like to import cheap labour to fill the bottom rung jobs. It makes inflation appear lower and cuts the Unions down to size. I believe it is a plan of the government to bring wages down to levels that will make the benefits then be able to be lowered.
As an aside the Japanese have managed to do without immigrants as their 'culture' would be diluted. How about following their culture then and seeing how their arguments stack up? No one pillories the Japanese for the way they rule out immigrants after all, in fact most politicians suck up to teh far eastern countries .”

“FYI:

Some time in the next five years Leicester will become the first English city where everyone is a member of some ethnic or religious minority. The schools are already there. By 2007, only 44% of pupils across the city were ethnically white. By 2015 at the latest, the adult population will be less than half white. Of course there are parts of every city in England where white people are a minority, but they are only parts. In Leicester this is the situation in the city as a whole. An enormous transformation is under way, and no one outside seems to have noticed. But does this make the city a model for our future? Or is it a proof that mass immigration brings unmanageable strains?


Andrew Brown
The Guardian, Saturday 2 January 20”

“Boy_Bono said: "in the US, anyone who visits and wishes to stay for more than 6 months MUST sign on to the military reserve"

That is utter nonsense! Perhaps in some instances that is the case (although to be honest, I doubt it) but it certainly isn't the case in all situations. If someone is recruited to work in the US and is granted permission to get a green card to accept that job, they are NOT required to do any military service at all.”

“@Oldhenry. The Japanese are to be applauded not least because they are one of the most well mannered and stoical of races (I just wish they would leave the Whales alone!). However, they are not being 'sucked up to' at the moment as their economy is in truly dire straits. It is China that is booming, certainly not Japan.”

“AllstarLEl,

Actually, I didn't say they are required to DO military service, I said that they are on the reserves. Sort of a national service but only present in theory. The only time the reserves would be needed would be in a mass-scale war akin to WWII.

Do you research and read people's posts carefully before dismissing a comment as "utter nonsense".”

“http://tinyurl.com/ycq9tr2

I may have used the wrong term, but it is called 'Selective Service'. Maybe you should read that.

"The Selective Service System wants you to know that the requirement to register for the military draft did not go away with the end of the Vietnam War. Under the law, virtually all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are ages 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. "

There. I think it is your comment that is utter nonsense.

I rest my case.”

“I understand that immigration is a sore subject, but having been studying it for a quite a while now (at degree level), I feel I need to let some things off my chest, so to speak.
1) Immigration figures are nowhere near as high as are made out by certain newspapers, in fact, in certain ethnic minorities, the figures are dropping.
2) The women who wanted her husband to move here, without English, lost her case - so obviously the rules are working somewhat.
3) No, a 'national service' should not be implemented, unless all men from the age of 18 - 30 (as an example) are included in this. To suggest only immigrants should join is another form of racism.
4) Japan isn't as good as it seems. I have studied this in quite a lot of detail for about 4/5 years, and Japan has very little immigration, immigrants who are different ('white', 'black', filipino, korean, chinese etc) are still regarded as 'aliens' and are subjected to daily racism.
5) Immigration in the past has always been good for our economy. The NHS wouldn't have made such a quick development after 1948 had West Indies nurses not been brought in. This has continued throughout history, up until modern day.
6) Finally, 'White' should not be used to describe 'British/English'. It is pretty racist. Many Black, Asian etc people are 3rd, 4th, 5th generation immigrants. Does this stop them being British? No. Leicester does attract new immigrant families, but you mostly find that it's their children, grandchildren and great-grand-children that are settling here - they are British, and so if places such as Leicester are becoming 'less-white', it by no means suggests that Leicester is becoming 'less British'.
This is all my personal views :)”

“@Boy_Bono: Yes, you rest your case now because you corrected yourself to use the right terminology.”

“musical_becki:

Your degree level hasn't helped your English, you didn't put capital letters in, I have done so for you.....

4) Japan isn't as good as it seems. I have studied this in quite a lot of detail for about 4/5 years, and Japan has very little immigration, immigrants who are different ('white', 'black', Filipino, Korean, Chinese etc) are still regarded as 'aliens' and are subjected to daily racism.

The fact here there is nothing but personal opinion being thrown about, which is fine, but don't start trying to make out there are facts, when then aren't! x”

“and yes i have been drinking x”

“Backing Rachel up here,

musical_becki: With your degree on Immigration Studies..

During the Compilation of the Census last year the Home Office admitted that it didn't know exactly how many immigrants were in the country either legally or illegally and where they were living, what they did estimate was that it was at least 50 percent more than anticipated.

Calling a native people White is not really racist, we are referred to as White by many other cultures, we are simply using a term to describe our skin tone.

You say it's not as bad as you think, I live in Newark and Come from Melton Mowbray, both towns were predominantly Caucasian English Speaking, with a proliferation of War Time Polish Jews and Greek Orthodox families. These families were hard working and built their own communities and integrated whilst maintaining their own cultures in their own houses. They did not demand change like some other cultures do, and they didn't demand a change in the law in areas which they dominate like the new wave of immigrants.

What I am saying to you is that knowing these two towns, I never remembered anyone speaking in a foreign language openly in Supermarkets apart from the odd elderly relative of the Poles or the occasional Asian people.

Nowadays if you go to a supermarket (around 5pm in Newark), we call it Polish happy hour, although in Newark it's not Polish it's Lithuanians. They are opening their own shops, Lloyds Bank on Stodman Street Newark has all the leaflets in English and a set in Lithuanian. Melton is pretty similar, and you always see left hand drive cars with Eastern European number plates around town now. They simply don't want to integrate or learn English so we cater for THEM.

There are revolutions in Arab countries where they ousted leaders to change a regime, but now they've turned on their own people who choose to worship a different faith. A few misguided words in the West can result in a declaration of a holy war or death sentence. These faiths don't tolerate infidels or interlopers within their boundaries, yet these very faiths cry foul when they are show any resistance in countries of different ethnic background where they may wish to settle.

It is not unreasonable to be expected to show courtesy and respect for local customs and laws when visiting a foreign country, in the forces we were always told we are ambassadors for our country and should conduct ourselves as such, and were educated en route regarding customs and laws. It seems that anyone coming to Britain expects us to roll over and let them take charge.

I too am English, (with a few bits and bobs of ancestors which can't be changed or helped, and I am not ashamed of), I don't consider myself British or European either. If I want to see a cross of St George on an English Church or Village green I think It's politically correct that I can do so, not the flag of the Union. No one moans about the Welsh Dragon or Scottish Saltire flown everywhere in their respective countries. It's about time English people pointed this out in a reasoned debate rather than letting our so called representatives such as the NF or EDL make their shameful hate based protests.

As for National Service, I volunteered to join the Forces, it gave me a career when things were quite grim on the jobs front, and I served a full career. I don't agree immigrants should be forced to do National Service, I personally wouldn't want to work with Anyone who didn't want to be there, let alone someone who's background may be a little sketchy, and their Ethnic and Religious needs mean that they would be absent a lot of the time or easily offended.
What if they had to attack their home country.

It should remain voluntary, but we should have a points based system, and minimum Collateral Bond like Australia with a 2 year probationary period, which includes not getting arrested and maintaining continuous employment.

Sorry really long repetitive dit, but got it off my chest now”

“In short, YES. It used to be difficult - everyone had to apply for a visa to immigrate. But things seemed to change with Mrs. Thatcher (1980s) as a result of laws dictated down to us from Brussels, our subscription to the Human Rights Act and our involvement with the USA's 'New World Order' wars. A whole industry sprang up using the Human Rights Act with criminal organisations smuggling people into the EU and, significantly, people using the excuse of escaping from conflicts, civil wars or economic troubles (such as famine or drought) in their own countries. Many preferred to escape their 2nd-class status in other European countries and coming to the UK where they received good hospitality. Also, significantly, we took in people from countries (or claimed to be from countries) where we were involved in Bush & Blair's wars such as Iraq or Afghanistan. Living in an area where most newcomers first arrive, there are people who have used false names, falsely claimed to come from a conflict zone or who have criminal backgrounds or even serious illnesses. The Refugees and the Asylum Seekers outnumber the immigrants. In one tv programme, a couple who were caught smuggling 20,000 cigarettes were scared to be deported (presumably for losing the gang's merchandise) and, on crying, the Immigration Officer sympathetically asked several times if they wished to claim Asylum and, as soon as they did, were allowed into the UK 'temporarily'. The Border Police are inundated with illegal "immigrants" but, when they do catch anyone, they arrest them and release them on bail, only to see them disappear again! We no longer have the stringent process of checking every immigrant and it seems to be easier to get British Citizenship. Our immigration laws have become comical. In comparison, other countries have very robust procedures which ensure that only the genuine immigrant is allowed to enter - their laws ensure priority is given to their country and its citizens first and foremost.”

“@Rachel_Leics: You are the last person (literally, there is no one behind you) on this board who should be criticising anyone else's writing style, grammar, punctuation, spelling or capitalisation.

To quote you from another topic (17 Jan):

"...but this is not an exam this is a local chat area where people can practice their English skills by writing more. I agree to with Martin8 we all make mistake even you and me, so let's not judge. x""”

“Rachel, I put personal opinion on the end so that people wouldn't misunderstand my intentions - that I was starting an argument, I was putting across my view. To correct three capitals in a whole comment was a little rude, and to insult me due to the fact that I forgot them whilst writing on a forum post online instead of a 10,000 word dissertation was a little rude.
Thank you allstarlei for the defence. I hope this settles the issue.

Chappy1884: Thank you for your response. About the national service, I wasn't suggesting everyone should do it. After someone said 'all immigrants should be forced to sign up', I said that it's only right if every man joins up. I have the utmost respect for those who join the forces - whether voluntary or paid (I have family friends in the forces).
I agree, areas in Leicester have become more 'bi-cultural' - we still haven't reached multi-cultural status for the reasons you mentioned - the lack of 'assimilation/integration' into the British way of life. However, the point I was making, was that Leicester (as a small city) is more of an anomaly - yes, London, Liverpool, Manchester, are all full of immigrants, however, if you go to places like Yorkshire and Norfolk, further North towards Scotland, you'll find that there are very few immigrants there, apart from 3rd, 4th, 5th generations.”

“That sentence sounds really bad! Let me re-state it! haha!
Rachel, at the end of my original point I put 'This is all my personal views :)' The reason I put this, was because I was worried people would misunderstand my intentions. I don't want people to think I'm trying to argue, I just had an opposing view to previous peoples comments.
I hope this settles the issue :)”

“As someone from Leicester that has been living in Australia for the last few years i think i can offer some views.
Australia has very strong immigration policy and the UK should certainly adapt to it. The system is simple. You are required to have a skill that the country wants. You are required to adapt to the Australian culture and way of life. It is not going to adapt to you and nor should it.

The issue with refugees is also a very hot topic in Australia at the moment and the UK can learn something from there. While the current Oz system is flawed after it was watered down by the current goverment, the previous system is almost certainly going to be reintroduced.

The system is simple. If you arrive via a safe country, then you will be sent back to that safe country. In Oz the problem is with people arriving by boat from Indonesia, the policy will be that the navy will turn the boats around, by force if necessary.

If you are permitted to stay then you will not be given rights to stay indefinatly. They have a temporary protection visa which gives right to stay for as long as the reason you are a refugee exists, but once that reason is gone, you will be sent back.

If you emigrate to Oz you are not entitled to benefits for a period of time and if you arrive on a visa for a retired person to be with family you will be required to pay a bond that is used for any medical requirments.

Where the UK needs to go beyond is to remove the right to gain residence by marriage. The system should be that if you marry a person from another country then that person would still have to match the full criteria. The marriage is of no benefit to the visa.

The criteria for all immigration should be that you have skills which are in demand and cannot be filled with a local person. That you speak english. That you agree to live by the customs and way of life of the UK. That you will not be eligible for any form of benefit including health care for a minimum of 2 years. That if you commit an offence in the country in the first 5 years it will (not just might) result in you being deported. That if you are present as a refugee and commit and offence you will lose refugee status and be deported.”

“Thank you Chappy1884, you and City_C10 are about the only gentlemen on here.

@Allstar:

You and the others are nasty and malicious towards me just because I correct you and them, as they have or do me? That is the reason I corrected him Allstar, as you all jump on me for a typo or my style of writing. You were talking to me fine over the PC discussion, now you have turned and shown your true colours yet again like you did over the women in Britain dressing like ladies of the night. You really need to try to understand that everything you say isn't right or correct.

@musical_becki

You think that is rude, so it is o.k. for me to be corrected and put right but not you, why? I do not have to agree with what you say, I was making a generalisation last night after going out that all comments here not just you, get over yourself are all opinions. That is fine, as I said but these are not facts, just as any media source reports sometimes facts are opinions but are forcing us to believe them. You yourself have correct your own mistakes, so I think my correction is justified?

@ Verystormy

Thank you for some input.

x”

“.. by AllstarLEI
Saturday, January 28 2012, 9:16AM
."@Rachel_Leics: ....To quote you from another topic (17 Jan):

Good grief, remind me not to engage with you. You seem to keep records”

“My daughter is going to work in Australia next month, she is a nurse and therefore one of the occupation groups needed by the Australians. The immigration process has taken about a year with masses of paperwork, references, medicals, proving fluency in the english language, having to register a state registered nurse over there, visa applications etc., it has cost a great deal of money so far. This is only for a 12 month working visit visa.

The immigration process is very difficult, even for people they really want.

I could retire over there, but only if I had A$750,000 to invest, A$65,000 a year pension and funds to pay for 80% of my medical bills. I have more chance of going to the moon”

“I like a lot of what Australia (and many other countries such as New Zealand, USA & Canada) are doing to vet immigrants. Perhaps the solution is a middle ground as the UK is clearly making it too easy and Australia is clearly making it too difficult as referenced by llamalamb above.”

“"@ Rachel_Leics: You are right that I have criticised your poor grammar here in the past. And you have never accepted that criticism from myself or from anyone else. Not once.

I will write how I want to thank you! Why do you think you are right all the time? x”

“not getting sucked into any more arguments,
It doesn't bother me whether people's grammar is incorrect or their spelling is poor,
I often submit large posts and appear big headed or a bit of a know all, it's mainly down to being politically and socially aware and with enough experience in my relatively short lifetime to form an objective opinion, but also to analyse, assess and debate the opinions of others rather than shoot them down flat if they aren't the same as mine.

I have had run in's with Allstar Lei, I have had arguments with Leicslocal, I have been on the receiving end of Rachel and Martin8's annoyance. I often enjoy good debate as well as the occasional argument with CityC10, but I don't try to rob any of them of an opinion, and I don't accuse anyone of being Sad Old Men with no life or any other insult, because it solves nothing.

I actually like most of the people on here, because like me they care enough about social issues that affect this City, County, Region, Country to post comment and no one should ever be denied that.

Stating your Credentials is not impressive, I have a very diverse knowledge base due to my former employment, but I have learned that bragging about what you know and why you are more qualified then the next person only gets everyone elses back up.

I have said all I needed to say regarding the actual topic being discussed here, I just wanted to put my point across that I don't care where you come from, what you do, or how clever or educated you are or how thorough you are checking your submissions. I just wish people would stop arguing over who is better than who and enjoy the freedom of this forum.

In short, Leave Rachel alone, she's had a pop at me in the past and it's not bothered me in the slightest, she has no malicious intent, but what she does have is an opinion and the benefit of youth which gives her enormous scope and potential to learn from some of you so called Oracles. You'd do better to encourage her interest in topics rather than belittle her for her mistakes.

War and peace again, sorry. End of rant.”

“I hope this argument between Rachel_Leics and AllstarLEI wasn't because of my couple of comments. Rachel, I understand that you disagree with my views, and that's not a problem. As I stated, what I said were 'my' views, and people always see things differently. I don't understand how you were offended by my comments, but I do hope that you understand I was not personally attacking anyone else's views.

This is a forum, and you asked a couple of questions about immigration. Of course, there are hundreds of views about them, and you're not going to agree with everyone. That's part of the forum. Please don't take it personally.

What AllstarLEI was trying to say (I think), was that it was a bit unfair for you to defend your grammar, and then to insult someone else's (mine) in another post. Everyone writes and says things wrong, especially online, when it's not school/college/Uni/work.

My issue was that you didn't disagree with my comment; you simply insulted my lack of capitals. Yes, there should have been capitals, but again, this is a forum where people are discussing their views, not their 'e'nglish skills.

You also said 'these aren't facts'. The first lesson of my degree is, don't say things without facts. I do have facts regarding my views, however, as I said before, I'm not writing an essay/dissertation here, and so I'm not going to footnote every one of my comments.

Back to my previous (first post).
1. Immigration figures: (I do not have the printouts in front of me at the moment, as they are at my other house) Census' from 1901 have shown an increase in different ethnic groups, as one rises, another tends to plateau/fall. This is a running trend.
2. The woman wanting her husband to move here. Look on LM site, articles all available.
3. National Service: more an opinion than fact. To ask an ethnic group to participate whilst 'natives' (I hate that term) don't is a form of segregation.
4. Japan: Plenty of information available on this - from Japanese Television programmes, to contemporary historical resources.
5. Immigration being good for the economy: Again, plenty of historical resources on this. Refer to historians such as Panikos Panayi.
6.'White' and racism. Again, refer to many different historians - Panikos Panayi is always the good starting point as the leading historian.

I understand this now sounds confrontational, however, after your flurry of attacks at posters ('all sad old men/women etc' who spend all day commenting) I believe you need knocking down a peg :)

This is the end of my interest in this topic, as instead of you creating a healthy debate, you've caused arguments, been rude to people, and used a very sensitive topic to do so.

Thank you and I hope you had a lovely evening out :)
x”

“I think that from what I read and deduce ,that Rachel is maybe 16/17. What I admire is that out of all the people who 'converse' on this site, She is possibly the youngest and out of all of her age group at least she is taking an interest in current affairs and what goes on in her City and County, If she makes the odd grammatical error, so b**ody what. I enjoy reading your remarks Rachel so don't desert us for FB please. There is more chance of seeing Lord Lucan ride Shergar up Charles Street than everybody getting everything all of the time. I look forward to reading you on Monday x”

“@ 22FARAWAYFOX

Thank you so much for your kind words, they are lovely and you are a real gentleman and a nice person for saying them. I am just 16 years old and yet as you have seen and others have the amount of abuse I have suffered on here over the period of time have been on here, why, are they jealous I am young?

The fact is they make mistakes and if I point them out they hate it, is this because they feel silly for making a mistake, I have no idea, and they are bullies. But you're right I won't be bullied off this site by them. I have changed my writing now from when I first started, I have taken away my slang so Allstar is wrong when he said I haven't changed or took notice, he is wrong quite a lot I find but is so stubborn .

And my posts can't be that bad as I have so many comments on them and they make for good talking or debating points, they have issues! The fact is I have no problem with anyone on here, I have never been rude to others, but now I am with some as they have been with me, I am defending myself. The fact that I am just 16 shows their true colours as they like to pick on children and girls, aren't they big?

xx”

“yes shut the doors now”

“well said paulwhestone”

“Stick with it Rachel,

Musical Becki, some of your facts are based on the opinions of observers or cross sectional and proportional surveys. The Very same stats can be used to show the exact opposite if put forward by a talented statistician.

Example. (sorry if it seems irrelevant)

If 10 women drive and 90 men drive and 1 woman has a crash every year, and 9 men have a crash every year.

Insurers will say more men crash every year than women, so that is how they justified lower policies. But if you look at the Stats, 10 percent of women crash and so do 10 percent of men, so it's equal.

Another spin could be that 81 men don't crash, where only 9 women avoid accidents.

Stats are shown to reflect what the statistician or person commissioning the survey wants it to show. And all of your examples of literature come from Observers, not participants in policy. It's easy to pontificate with hindsight, especially if you have no reputation to preserve, but try making these decisions for real. How many of your authors have ever had that weight of responsibility.

You stay on here Rachel, don't get forced off by those who put up a facade of intelligence, I am not that clever, I just use what I have available. Funnily enough this internet thing is quite a good resource. Those spouting facts should use it to verify them sometime.”

“Thanks chappy : )

And i agree with you that facts can be turned on to make for better reading, like my heading they say Leicester will be the first city to have more 'black' people than 'white' i do not know if that is true? But I am not saying it is a good or bad thing as long as we have jobs for everyone, but do we? x”

“Rachel, they are trying to wind you up, don't bite, some of them on here are ignoring your points and issues and having a bit of sport......see you monday x”

“I think that the immigration policy in this country needs to be overhauled straight away and some serious changes made and I suspect that most people in this country would agree. We simply cannot continue to take in the numbers of people that we are. Our resources are simply not enough to go around and cannot be spread even thinner. Yes, it's very sad that people need to flee the country where they were born due to war or political differences etc but the end result of people flooding in the UK will be that the UK will collapse under the weight of all the needy. Some common sense needs to be applied and quickly!”

“Truth is always bitter.

Many people migrate to other country's.. Are you of the impression that British people do not live in other parts of the world. Wake up and smell the coffee. This is a global Society. People move and do business all over the world.

Majority of Brits who are against immigration are ignorant to the ins and outs of Immigration. Fact one.. Non-EU Legal Immigrants make up a very small percentage of total immigration to this country. Fact two.. Non-EU Legal Immigrants are not able to claim any form of benefit. It is stamped in your passport, NO RECOURSE TO PUBLIC FUNDS!!. Fact Three.. You still have to pay taxes and contribute to the country and Fact Four.. You still have to pay exorbitant fees for renewing any form of visa you may have. Non EU immigrants cannot claim any benefits , however EU migrants who can not speak one word of English are the real problem here. What are you going to do about that? The fact is the non EU migrants are not the ones bleeding the system but the gold digging EU migrants looking for benefits and the workshy brits. Most non EU migrant pay high tax but are not entitled to public funds.

Since the government are unable to regulate the vast amount of people who are immigrants, that is Asylum Seekers, EU Nationals and Illegal persons. Then they target the very small percentage of people who are actively contributing, who did the right thing and went through the legal route and who are bright and are the best because they tend to have successfully completed degrees that the mass of British society do not want to do. A lot of engineers, doctors etc are here because they are bright. How many of these people are earning the amount that he 'claims' shows that your bright or the best????

Also, if you didn't know. The UK has an aging population. Not enough babies are born here and that is what is contributing to problems with pensions schemes because there are not enough people working and paying taxes to cover those who are aging and living longer. So Immigration is not always a bad thing.

Migrants seeking permission to enter Britain must prove they will 'add to the quality of life'....................... Isn't it ironic that a politician is asking a particular question that if put to most of the incumbents at Westminster, if truthful, could themselves, only answer in the negative? How about asking the MP's how they plan on making the country better and whether they be self sufficient without living off the tax payer

I am quite frankly sick of these government and immigration officials making it seem as though every migrant that comes here is sponging off the country and it's people. It's not true. Majority of migrants are working and contributing to this country by paying taxes. Immigration is good I don't see why people complain. It brings in so much money to the economy. Why are Brits so scared of immigrants. Migrants seeking a life in Britain will be asked: Can you make the country better? -------- I am always asking the same question of our politicians.

Why on earth should an immigrant be expected to "make this country better", when the empty headed, bufoons we elect make such a damnable mess of everything in this country This question should be asked of our MP's BEFORE they are elected.~ Mr Cameron, Mr Clegg and Mr Milliband and this cuckoo of a Minister, can YOU make this country better? Huh! More like entrusting the running of the country to rats themselves. They will ask the migrants "What can you do to make the country better" ? reason being the present crop of MPs con/lab/lib are incapable of doing so. Hence the look for migrants who can sought the place out......

It suits the politicians that migrants come in and work for peanuts, they really don't care about this country, profits before country every time, the business class are operating globally and will just move abroad if they can't make maximum profits here.”

“There can be many arguments with the positive and negative response to the EU and the amount of workers that have came to work in England legally. Then there're the workers who come from outside the EU zone and therefore have claimed money that they might not be entitled to. I do agree that tougher immigration is needed in the UK. With times being hard for most people we can't afford to bring in more workers when there isn't work here in the UK.”