Thursday, September 06 2012, 9:08AM
“I agree to an extent disident3, benefits given so that children can have 3 meals a day should go on food and not anything. There should also be something so that children can get new clothes before they buy new tvs or cigarettes. I'm not saying all people on benefits abuse the system, but have seen plenty of children in clothes too small or ripped because their clothes are too old, yet the mother is seen with bags from New Look/Jane Norman etc or a pint in a hand and a cigarette.”
Thursday, September 06 2012, 12:14PM
“This is so full of assumptions :/
1. Please provide the info/links/facts/figures to back the claim that people on benefits are spending money on themselves and not feeding their children
2. How can you tell from looking at a 'young mum' that she is on benefits?
3. How do you know that the clothes she is wearing were bought from her own pocket? My sister-in-law is fairly wealthy and gives me lots of clothes, some still with tags on.
4. Material things can be got from credit, catalogues etc, some things may have been bought before being on benefits.”
Thursday, September 06 2012, 2:33PM
“Absolutely agree with your comments mam35. Too many people make assumptions and generalisations about those on benefits, and those who they simply think are possibly on benefits.”
Thursday, September 06 2012, 7:18PM
“Where is your proof, facts and figures of starving children in Leicester mam35. Not hear say from people getting a living out of it. So now I assume people are on benefit or not. Ever dawned on you I know these people as I live among them and many are friends. I live in the real world not trying to prove any political point. Like Braunstone is a deprived estate? Why, who had the £50 million? You could ask the labour council where much of it went. My great granddaughters are single mums, their kids are well dressed and fed. Why because they get off their backsides and work for a pittance and Tax credit.”
Thursday, September 06 2012, 9:44PM
“You may live among people in a deprived area, doesn't necessarily mean you know the ins and outs of their lives. Your opening statement reads as a bit judgemental, for someone who says they are 'friends' with people trying to survive on benefits.”
Thursday, September 06 2012, 10:07PM
“Maybe bigoted is a bit of a strong word City_10, I think for some its hard to shake an ingrained opinion/view, especially if its constantly reinforced by rhetoric bull :)
Food stamps are an awful idea, sorry but its just awful. Could you imagine losing your job..if thats not demeaning and demoralising enough, then you are expected to line up in a supermarket with food stamps...”
Thursday, September 06 2012, 10:34PM
“Don't bother helping me with grammar or spelling mistakes City..it was a lost cause long ago, and I'm really not bothered, and if others are then...well...tough :)”
Friday, September 07 2012, 8:46AM
“It seems we only are allowed one opinion. The basic question was with no hidden intent, in this day and age of benefits no child should go without. Benefits are a safety net.”
Friday, September 07 2012, 11:03AM
“Nobody was denying you an opinion Disident, I just like to see links to fact, figures etc, just so I know what it is people are referring to. Im not sure those children whose family are on our normal benefit system are starving, or going without food. There is a problem where some are not getting what they are entitled too, for example asylum seeker,s often do not have enough money, some families as little a £35 per week, they can not access our normal benefit system.”
Friday, September 07 2012, 12:40PM
“As for benefits being a 'safety net' that changed..its now a means of survival for some. You brought politics into this with labours wasteful spending. Well The conservatives 'care in the community' has left many dependent on benefits. There are more carers in the home now then before that initiative, who have no chance of going to work, and as the figures show from ONS of the long-term unemployed where no-one is working, most have a disabled or sick/terminally ill person in the household. The services are no longer there to care for their disabled relative.”
Saturday, September 08 2012, 8:53AM
“It's amazing how little people know about the subjects they spout drivel about, isn't it?I agree with mam35: carers (that is, people looking after sick relatives) get a raw deal but are treated as spongers, even by the government that saves money from their hard work for the pittance that is the benefit they receive.”
Saturday, September 08 2012, 10:21AM
“Clearly I know nothing of caring after years of caring for my wife. No crying or bleating you get what life throws at you. That maybe why our daughter and two granddaughters work in care.”
Saturday, September 08 2012, 10:49AM
“disdent..." No crying or bleating you get what life throws at you"
I dont think anyone is crying or bleating, but some are not in a position to be able to be a carer and go out to work.”
Saturday, September 08 2012, 2:53PM
“Because one person has been a carer for another doesn't mean they know what it's like for every other carer.I've been a carer for more years than I can remember, most of which I was in full time work as well. No bleating from me. But I did spend a time on benefits while caring for 3 adults and a disabled child. Work got a bit much for me then.”
Saturday, September 08 2012, 3:13PM
“I guess it depends on the disability/illness...Especially if the person you are caring for is a child, who obviously is unable to care for themselves even without a disability/illness. Im hoping as my son progresses through life il be able to go back to working, its looking promises as his progress is increasing now, im hoping for at least 10 -3 hours in the near future...I think the fact that I was an high earner, earning far more then the average, and now on £58 a week carers, shows that its not a choice of lifestyle, its necessity, do you not think id rather be out earning as much as I was before??”
Saturday, September 08 2012, 5:14PM
“We can go on forever over the benefit system. It is what it is and will be that way until strong action by either people or a strong leader of the government works out how to change it with financial gain and purpose. I do not agree with how easy it is to live of the state, but what can you do about it?”
Saturday, September 08 2012, 5:31PM
“The problem is MartinLFE, you cannot make drastic changes without a strong policy on economic recovery, there must be a strong jobs market if you are going to throw people off benefits, the threat is, there will be no job and no income :/..and as we have found out in recent weeks, this government has admitted its had to borrow even more then the previous government had in the year preceding to their take-over. The economy is far from strong and yet drastic changes are already taking place..a road to disaster at the moment :/ The focus should be on economic recovery and not on clawing little amounts back from the welfare bill, and the working classes. The economy relies on people spending, and unfortunately when drastic cuts come into being, people don't spend :/”
Saturday, September 08 2012, 9:07PM
“The benefit system was set-up as support for people, not as a career let us not forget…In other words get a job and support yourself! Unless someone is disabled, or others who are really looking for a job and not planning a career or a lifetime on the dole, what is anyone's excuse not to work? My problem is not people claiming the dole due to losing their job or simply not finding a job, it is those who are making a living and do NOT want/wish to work. Though I am sure people can do more n the dole by volunteering and earning it, I guess work is a dirty word?”
Sunday, September 09 2012, 3:38PM
“Yawnnn City_10, still pumping out the rhetoric nonsense..benefits is not a 'career', it pays nowhere near enough. Chris Grayling himself has said its worked out on the minimum needed to live on. Lifetime on the dole would suggest you are referring to the the above mentioned disabled or carers...as most able bodied are throuh the system in less then 2 years.
Just a couple of charts for you of people claiming jobseekers allowance, from the DWP themselves. I think it also counts out the usual thing you say of people pumping out babies for benefits??
Sunday, September 09 2012, 4:22PM
“Or work just as hard, i think that should of said.”
Sunday, September 09 2012, 8:35PM
“mam35 - Have you contacted the Carers Centre in Leicester? They may be able to help?”
Monday, September 10 2012, 11:33AM
“Never underestimate the power of charity shops, and the carboot sales. Awesome way of saving money while adopting other people's unwanted, expansive spending. In regards of welfare for children.. Good role models , positive influences have to come before food or money, especially around fortunate parts of the world. We are to develop our own optimism further.. to inspire changes around the world, give our precious energy to our own unique creativity with kind regards.”
Wednesday, September 12 2012, 5:25AM
“I think it changed its name a while ago, but yes. You can contact them on 0116 2510999. I've been a member for 13 years”
Wednesday, September 12 2012, 8:21AM
“Top and bottom of it is the whole system needs an overall particularly disability. It is so easy to fraud it. I cannot work because I am an alcoholic or drug addict. My back hurts. I think just by the sheer numbers being caught shows there is a lot wrong with it.”
Wednesday, September 12 2012, 10:00AM
“disident3... I think just by the sheer numbers being caught shows there is a lot wrong with it.
Its not easy to fraud the system disident, if you read the cases carefully in the papers like the daily mail etc which love to put your kind of point across, you'll find most had a genuine claim when it was first made but failed to report an improvement in condition...the fraud rate for DLA is 0.5% the lowest of all benefits, the rate for JSA is over 4%...they would be your fraudulent workers who claim JSA while working, only they dont get mentioned much do they :/.”
Friday, September 14 2012, 5:40AM
“I get heartily sick of people spouting about disability fraud when it is the lowest of all fraud.Yet no one bangs on about tax fraud - which if dealt with properly would save billions and remove the need for cuts to anything!”
Sunday, September 16 2012, 9:27AM
The tax system exists to pay for the running of the country,
The benefit system exists to support those temporarily incapacitated or out of work,
it is not a life style.
There is a defecit between tax receipts and benefit claims beyond that which can be attributable to fraud until proven. Tax fraud could be better investigated if there was more money in the pot. 2 ways to achieve that, more people who can work in work paying tax, and less people who can work but won't work on benefits.
Our benefits and health system are a massive draw - not only to our own people but to other people from other european countries who get less for doing nothing, than they would here.
To suggest that everyone spends their benefits on nice clothes is a bit general,
however I have noticed on council estates - a lot of nice cars and sky dishes, meaning that there is obviously substantial income left to pay for these, or someone in the household is earning (maybe grown up kids). The whole point of social housing was to give housing to those who need it and can't afford their own.
This whole topic is devisive, it is hard to answer it without either looking like an intollerant snob, or someone who defends a benefit reliant lifestyle.
Loads of young single mums complain they can't work or go to college as they can't afford childcare.
Loads of public buildings have space which is unused - Including colleges.
If these young mums had any nouse - they'd get together - sort out their own childcare with the help of an accrediting body, so they can use an unused public space to start their own creche, where they all take it in turns to staff it, whilst gaining childcare qualifications and studying for other things if they need to.
They wouldn't be at home using their own fuel,
They would have cheap child care,
They would be getting qualifications themselves,
They would be out of the house every day and in the habbit of being pro-active.
But I hear it too often, too many weak excuses.
Yes Mam35 there aren't enough jobs for everyone - but no one thinks for themselves.
People moan about council tax - when did you last walk past a piece of litter,
or report an overflowing bin? These are easy ways to cut public spending costs,
but no one wants to do it. If kids who drop litter were told it was costing their parents money that could be spent on Christmas presents, they may think differently.
It's all relative.”
Sunday, September 16 2012, 10:37AM
“Social housing is available to all, (unless you own your own home, or you do not have habitual residency), you dont have to be on benefits to go on a housing list, however priority is given to those in housing need, such as those that are homeless. On ordinary benefits you couldn't possibly afford a car..you can go and work out for yourself how much you get on benefits, and how much would be 'disposable income'. Its worked out on the minimum needed to live on, and thats that..no special cases, no extra money..just that. When i lived on a council estate, there were plenty of dishes, however most i knew had lost their subscription long ago for non-payment. Chances are those cars you see were got before being unemployed, keeping it running while on benefits would be near-on impossible, or the person is living on the estate and isnt unemployed..or they have motability scheme for a disability.”
Sunday, September 16 2012, 11:20AM
“not slating those who are on the right side of the system mam35, you must know that by now.
I am accutely aware that a lot of social housing is occupied by those who work,
and funnily enough the ones occupied by working people tend to be the well kept, neat and tidy ones.
But it is not a misconception that there are a large amount of people that cannot be bothered.
No matter what your own circumstance or those you know - please don't take peoples conception as a misconception. You are obviously not one of the people who are being criticised here, and neither are those like you. But it's not right to assume that there isn't an element of society (quite a big one in some areas), who cannot be bothered to help themselves,
who cannot be bothered to look after something they get very cheaply which most of us work our fingers to the bone to achieve.
It seems in some areas, property is so easy to come by that they have no regard for it.
Anyone who opposes abolishing a lazy culture - which makes a lot of social housing areas appear as slums and unsavoury places could be construed as supporting it.
I know that not everyone out of a job is at fault (I am not in employment or training and I claim nothing, I live off my pension and the rent from my old house which I cannot afford to sell), I am struggling, I see my nice things becoming a burden, I am looking for a job, when I go to the job centre it's because I want to, the others I see there spend most of their time smoking outside, I don't know how they afford cigarettes, or the cans of strongbow they often seem to deposit around the estate some of them live on.
If most of the people in certain areas are honest, why is it that insuring your car anywhere near those areas is more expensive? Why is it that privately owned housing estates tend to be neater and tidier, and you always see someone on a sunny day working somewhere to keep their house looking nice?
There is nothing wrong with asking people to help themselves out.
I am not generalising against everyone on benefits,
I am not labelling everyone in social housing,
I am not saying everyone with a nice car or sky is paying for it with undeserved handouts.
What I am saying is that there are some that clearly don't want to work because they are better off out of work.
Surely knowing my background you can see why that rankles me and a lot of others, and it isn't a misconception or urban myth. If it is, then I will stand corrected.”
Sunday, September 16 2012, 11:42AM
“Of course Chappy, and I agree, there are good and bad in all sections of society. Ive seen some privately owned properties that are unkempt, and ive seen council properties unkempt. That kind of thing is about pride in yourself and your (or others if renting) property.
There is a misconception by some on benefits that they will be worse off in work, thats where the job centres should be informing them and education them that in fact they will not be..you can earn just as much as you get on benefits in work without losing any of the benefits like LHA etc, then you lose around 60p in the pound once you go over the amount you get on JSA/income supoort. That was ensured with the introduction of tax credits.”
Monday, September 17 2012, 10:14AM
“My point about untidy estates - is this mam35
some people get too old - and they can't look after their own property,
some people work every hour god sends - and have a lot of commitments,
a lot of these people still manage to mow the law, put the bins away after they've been emptied, go to the tip rather than creating their own tip, and do a little bit of maintenance,
These are people that usually can't do it during the day, so they do it in the evenings or on weekdays.
I know a lot of people (from my paper round as a kid) who didn't pay their papers because they had to feed the meter. Their gardens were a disgrace, which led to everyone having a low opinion of them. Instead of feeding the meter to keep the TV and heating running all day, why couldn't they spend a couple of hours in the garden and make an effort.
Nearly all of them had dogs, but they couldn't afford to feed the meter. And to walk the dog, they simply left the front gate open and opened the front door to let it out.
Why couldn't they take the dog out, have a walk and get some exercise.
I was invited in at Christmas to a few of the houses, they gave me a tip, (Like I said, nice enough people), but the houses were a bomb site,
Money - no matter where it comes from - doesn't make you less lazy.
These people were at home all day.
If they'd spent a little of that time looking after their property, themselves, then In return they would not be judged as wasters.
One of the areas had millions spent on re-decorating, smarter gardens, driveways and garages, new windows, roofs - this was about 25 years ago, it now looks as bad as it did. The houses aren't low quality, about half a mile away houses in the same situation were sold off, they are now selling for about 160 thousand and all of them are in good condition and apart from the odd overgrown garden, most of them are immaculate outside.
I don't agree with the generalisation of stripping benefits to encourage those to work, then reviewing each case whilst they are in deficit. That is completely the wrong tactic,
you end up paying back more than you saved.
What I do agree with is serving a notification for re-assessment - giving people a cut off date to effectively demonstrate why they should still qualify. After that date if a person doesn't qualify, they have another fixed period to find work, then and only then can you terminate their benefit. And some serious thought should go into not scaring those who genuinely need it, and make it simple and easy for them to justify their continuation.
But something does have to be done.
This will make work more attractive, rather than benefits.
I don't disagree that something needs to be done to get rid of the misconception that you'll be worse off in work. But even for those of us who have earned a lot, you hear of these 7 child families in enormous houses at council expense, in nice areas (as the councils don't have houses that big so they sub let private houses), In areas like London where the wages are higher overall. Whilst we struggle to do things off our own back, and it sort of riles me a bit.
There is no quick or easy way. But If councils took charge of these estates, then things wouldn't be so bad. I am scared to allow DSS tenants in my house - because of the horror stories, and how it would be for my former neighbours, it's also a term on my letting consent from my mortgage provider - even though the rent would be guaranteed.
This is why there is a shortage of property for certain markets, and unsuitable homes are used.
If people were more aware of how laziness and tardiness influences peoples thinking and looked after things - not only would the cost of living as regards taxation and council tax come down, but there would be less of a stigma attached, and less use of the term
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