“I am a disabled person that is not working, but the DWP are trying to get as many people off of incapacity benefit and onto the equivalent of JSA part of the new ESA benefit instead. Those on incapacity are being asked to fill in a questionnaire on how fit they feel for work, which has been bought about to try to get those on the benefit that suffer from Mental Illness back into the workplace primarily (as well as those who have got better but "forget" to inform the DWP and revert onto JSA at a lower weekly amount!). I have no problems at all in going to work, but my worry is that a ATOS Doctor that does not know me and thinks they know better than my own GP and Hospital Consultant will decide that I am fit enough to come off of InCap and be put onto the lower ESA benefit, yet not be able to find work as most employers will choose to employ a fully able-bodied person over someone who may not be able to get out of bed in the morning due to severe M.S. and other debilitating ailments. I wish I could go back to work, but know that it will be even harder for me to find suitable employment at a suitable wage to put myself through the additional pain. The other issue that may be a problem is if moved onto the "jobseekers" ESA, what will happen if I have a bad day and cannot get out of bed or the house when I need to "sign on"? Will there be any special dispensation for the disabled with regards to this? I have to live day by day, and cannot plan anything until I wake up in the morning.
I can understand why the DWP want to get more people off of benefits that they were once entitled to but are not, but from what I have seen through looking on JC+ website and through local papers, there are not that many jobs out there that pay enough (including with Tax Credits) to make it more viable for some people with families to go back to work (i.e. start from the bottom to work up the company ladder again).
With all the talk of a £26k benefits cap, I would love to know exactly what circumstances the people that get this amount or more are living in, as with my wife, step daughter & I in the house, my wife's part-time income, my Incap & DLA/Motability, child benefit, tax credits, housing & council tax benefit, don't amount to anywhere near £26k pa (more like £21k maximum!)
Another change that is being bought in by HMRC with regards to Tax Credits is that to class as eligible by working part-time, you will, as of April 2012, need to work at least 24 hours a week instead of the existing 16 to be able to claim Working Tax Credits. This is going to make it even harder for people who are in part-time work for one reason or another to survive as they are going to lose the Tax Credit amount that makes up their wages to what the Government have said since 2003 that people can live on! Can employers be expected to automatically give those working 16 hours for them, an extra 50% increase in hours so that the person can still work for them or mean that the 16 hour staff members are going to create another large increase to the jobless totals? My wife works 16 hours simply because I need help during the day and cannot afford to pay for a separate carer to come in.
Those on benefits that sit around in the pub or bookies all day long should be ashamed of themselves for basically forcing the DWP/Government into making a lot of these changes! I couldn't afford to go to the pub even if I wasn't disabled!!!!”

“I think us that have the real experience of it, and know how the benefit system works, have pretty much given up trying to explain to anyone, they have already made up their minds and even facts and figures will not sway them. It seems the general opinion is that there are hoards of 'scroungers' living on 26k per year.... Yes of course we are better off now my partner is working, he has been made redundant twice in 5 years. We always struggled on benefits, and with the back to work and in work benefits we are much better off even though on minimum wage. Few will be affected by the cap, those worst hit will be those in affluent areas of the South and London that live in high rental price properties. I honestly do not see what can be gained from making those people homeless.”

“Thank you for your open and honest experiences over benefits. I do believe that a lot of people in work think that everyone who is claiming Job Seekers Allowance (JSA) and other forms of benefits (disability, housing etc) are all earning 26k plus. This is not the case as the users (thus far) have pointed out.

I have done some basic research and a single person out of work aged from 18 – 21 will get something around * £52 per week (around £208 per month). Ages 21+ will get around £62 per week (roughly around £248 per month). So per year this works out at roughly around £2,400 - £3000 per year, hardly the 26k. But this is just the minimum allowance (without housing, council tax etc) where you can hit 26k a year plus bracket/threshold.

Single women (not so much men/fathers) can have a rent allowance of around £400 per month and help with all bills and taxes etc. Those with 2+ children would get a lot of state help and these are the people who are hitting the high amounts of benefits. Those who have never worked and have no savings or a stable family behind them are the ones who seem to get all the support and money.

For example if you are made redundant and you have your own home and savings then you would not receive much help/support from the' JobCentre' or 'Government'. It does seem if you try and help yourself by working and saving you will not get any help (penalising yourself). For those who have done nothing and have nothing (due to them not working) get all the support. This does not seem fair or right to me?

Our Prime Minister Mr. Cameron will need to address the whole benefit system and reform it. He needs to try and create work and aid small businesses back to our country. This is no easy task and is easy to type, but then again I do not get paid silly wages to sort out this country and the 'Welfare System'. But if I did I am sure I could work out a solution in the long-term!

Thanks again for the posts and maybe there will be more?

*These figures might not be a 100% accurate – so please correct them if they are not right.”

“The rent payments of those on benefits living in privately rented accommodation depends on the local LHA rate which is set at the 30th percentile of local rents (for example a 2 bedroom property in leicestershire rate is around £109pw) but somewhere like central london the rate for a 2 bedroom property would be nearer to £350pw. As i said these are set at the bottom 30% of private rented properties in the area. Many have to top up their rent with their benefits, as trying to find a property in the bottom 30% is extremely difficult. There is also a restriction on how many rooms, for example when it was the old housing benefit a disabled child was entitled to their own room, now with lha if you have 2 children and one is disabled they are expected to share a room. So if you have a 3 bedroom house and only 2 children you will only receive the 2 bedroom rate. the same applies if you have had children that have now left home.

this is where the cap is very important. as i have pointed out, there are those on benefits in high rental properties. People are saying well if they get that amount (£500pw cap) its plenty to find somewhere else...but what they are forgetting is that a majority of their benefits is council tax benefit and housing allowance, no house = no housing allowance and no council tax benefit. they are now on their basic benefits that are worked out on the minimum needed to live on. these benefits will not increase to the level they were getting with lha and ctb. so now they have 2 choices, they try to meet the shortfall in rent by using their basic benefits (remembering that they are already paying some towards their rent) and leave themselves with very little money to actually live on, or the council rehome them in a cheaper area, which means moving them away from support of family, children away from schools............it doesnt make sense to me”

“I feel some clarity is required on the figure of £26K.

Taking into consideration a couple, mid 30s with 4 children aged 1 - 16. If they do not work and did not work last year, in Leicester they would be entitled to the following:

Child Tax Credit = £10778.70
Income Support = £5539.67
Council Tax Benefit = £939.49 (Based on the cheapest band property)
Housing Benefits = £6636.10 (3 Bedroom LHA rate of approx £126.00 per week rent)
Child Benefit = £3163.28

Total £27057.24

These figures may not be exact but as near as. The benefit soon adds up. That is more than my total income.

As for the move from Incap to ESA, this is not to 'force' disabled people to work but to encourage some. To many people, and rightly so, consider how it will affect them. We however need to look at the bigger picture. I have a friend with MS, the DWP have told him that he does not need to work because of the severity of his condition, his employer has tried to convince him the same and has tried to end his contract because of a couple of replases in his condition...he stopped taking his meds so it was his own fault, but he has fought to keep his job because he wants to work...another person will happily except Income Support or ESA and it is these people that the government is trying to move on, not those genuinely incapable or work.

and this is without addressing the Universal Credit which will replace Housing Benefit etc into 1 benefit. The amount people get paid soon adds up...but those reforming the benefits are those who will never rely on them...that needs to be looked into.”

“@ mamt35

You said on another post that you know what you are talking about? Does this either mean you work for the government or have applied for many different benefits, so I can understand? Can you write the full meaning of the initials used, as I am not sure what they mean or stand for? As City_C10 has done you write the full name then use initials after so we know what they stand for. Thank you.”

“I have been in both situations of being out of work , and in work. I have also helped employees move onto in work benefits. I also take an interest in politics and have researched vastly this subject. incredibleD. Only JSA is an 'out of work' benefit, the rest are means tested. In other words those in work can claim them too. you can earn as much as JSA before they begin tapering off + you get working tax credits and wages. Your fictional family will still be better off in work.

ctb = council tax benefit, cb = child benefit, lha = local housing allowance.”

“@ mamt35

Thank you for the reply and saying what the initials mean that is more helpful. Well I still personally feel that there are many 'gray' areas over the benefit system. Mean tested or not there are ways to con extras I bet? Either way still much work needed to restore the benefit world as we know it.”

“A table of tax credits: the first figure would be your unemployed http://tinyurl.com/6krozcm”

“actually that first figure isnt unemployed, it just relates to employment, this is the table for unemployed or working under 16hrs: http://tinyurl.com/6sh7hhx”

“no extras jani88...its about time people realised the truth, we are punishing those with less while people earning up to 41k still get some benefits too, and very little changes in the amount of benefit right up to a wage of around 11k per year. 26k may be the average earning wage but it is most definately not the average income”

“@ mamt35, my apologies if you misinterpreted what I was highlighting in my post, I only showed how £26k in benefit can easily be paid to a family.

I am fully aware of the in work benefits, how it paid, to whom etc, I am also aware of the applicable amount figures proposed for the calcualtions for next financial year. The family household I make reference to could have an earned post tax and national insurance income of £19415.24 per annum and still receive the CTB, housing benefit and child benefit that I previously quoted, totaling £10738.87.

In this scenario, the family would still be considered to be poverty under some statistics but the wages earned approx £25k per annum. It is because of this that a reform is required.”

“the tax credit reforms this april will see the biggest shake up, much more then the cap to be honest. Couples with at least 1 child will see there working tax credits stopped if they are working under 23 hrs (also making them subject to the cap aswell as only those qualifying for working tax credit are exempt) this does not apply to single parents. The second income threshold of 41k for child tax credit will be scrapped, so its unlikely a one child family earning over 26k will get anything except the 545 family element (there was talk of scrapping the family element but im not sure that went ahead) A couple with one disabled will not be exempt unless it is the disabled person working 16-23hrs and they are getting the disability rate, or the disabled person is on a qualifying benefit (which as we know ESA will only be for a year, and DLA is being reformed)

This causes yet another problem for unskilled people looking for work as alot of companies that take on unskilled workers only give 16-20hrs contracts.”

“Anyone thats interested in the real story behind the councils housing problems, and affordable housing shortage and why rents are so high, look up 'private sector leasing' landlords are paid even if property is vacant.”

“Up until february of last year I had a job now I have NO job and can not get one, why
I'm 60 this year yes I know companies are not to look a age BUT they do
they get round it by NOT GIVING YOU THE JOB
I did not think I would be out of work BUT to the people who think it is easy
I still have the same bills as I had before but with a lot less to pay them with.
think again I do not smoke or drink, I don't drive
but this is what I have coming in and going out
rent £480, housing benefit £338, I have to make up the short fall
JSA £230 a month I can say I'm not living high on the hog and for the people who
think we get £26k I would love to know who comes up with that one
I never when I was working 37.5 hours a week had that pay to take home
£12.000 before tax, and it this government have there way people will work for there JSA
but what will happen to the people who want job's they will not get them
as companies will take the FREE labour rather than pay so they will make MORE profits
wake up people and stop kicking the people who are down, remember it could be you having to take benefits'”

“It's ok for some but as one poster pointed out, if you are a home owner and lose your job you get no help. I was made redundant in 2009 and was given £56 a week job seekers allowance. Nothing else - I even still had to pay for my prescriptions. I had household bills of about £2,000 an month so the £56 a week did not go far. If it wasn't for redundancy money and a bit of savings I would been in real trouble in a short space of time. Luckily I did find a job within about six months otherwise I would have been skint and homeless.”

“It's ok for some but as one poster pointed out, if you are a home owner and lose your job you get no help. I was made redundant in 2009 and was given £56 a week job seekers allowance. Nothing else - I even still had to pay for my prescriptions. I had household bills of about £2,000 an month so the £56 a week did not go far. If it wasn't for redundancy money and a bit of savings I would been in real trouble in a short space of time. Luckily I did find a job within about six months otherwise I would have been skint and homeless.”

“Theoldlady2, sorry to hear of your circumstances, i hope things change for you soon. You are right about the work schemes, they have been around but covered up for a few years actually. My partner was put on 3. Funnily enough its just coming into the spotlight today: http://tinyurl.com/6ppff42

llamalamb, i too thought home-owners got no help towards their mortgage but found out that in fact their is some help called 'support for mortgage interest' if you are on benefits. Thats all i know about it though...shows you can still learn something new every day :)”

“@llamalamb - I thought home owners got their mortgage interest paid after the first six months, provided they didnt have savings of more than around £16K? Hence the importance of either having some form of income insurance, or enough savings - as you obviously did have. £56 a week though. When I last put diesel in the car it came to more than that and the tank wasn't even full.”

“Theoldlady2, you do know that most energy companies have a tariff or help for those on low incomes? Its well worth contacting them and asking. Just thought id mention it, if you are anything like me ive had my heating on constantly and a huge bill to match lol. Luckily im in a position to pay, but i can see how many on a low income would struggle x”

“Well it started off very well and there has been some very good and worthwhile points here (thanks). I am not sure how accurate the numbers are that have been throw around on here. But It helps to give a rough idea of what is or is not available for people to claim etc. Overall though I feel the benefit system is not going to work long-term if it is abused and not reformed. We do not have an endless pot of money, and with more and more people unemployed (not through any fault of their own) and others not wanting to work. Well we can only go one way, which is not the right way. I cannot see any quick-fix answer or solution to this matter, can anyone else, what to do and how?”

“the 'not wanting to work' i would really dispute. As we have already seen money isnt the object (work pays, do we not remember that slogan) Educating the unemployed (by educating those that work in jobcente+ to give the right information) that they will get more in work, and do not need to worry about not being able to feed and support their children on the minimum wage offered. And most importantly to stop vilifying, hounding and making absolutely flase and derogatory comments about unemployed people that makes them feel worthless, knocks their self confidence (lets admit is important when facing interviews for jobs) Demoralising them by explotation of working alongside workers on full pay on pointless so called 'work schemes'....maybe a start dont you think??”

“I think you will find there is (and has been) a small percentage of people who wish not to work. As I said for the vast majority of people being unemployed would not be their fault and would be 'hellish' for them (for many reasons).

You say 'educate' people in the Jobcentre – I am sure they are knowledgeable people? Or do you mean the job seekers (with a big percent of graduates)?

I hate to be rude but your grammar (mamt35) is very bad and really slating others and their skills is quite cute coming from you?

Anyhow enjoy your evening and weekend all.

Cheers!

Regards to the others users as well mamt35!”

“im afraid the people in jobcentre plus are not educated in benefits, as strange as that may sound. In fact when my partner came back with a so called 'in work calculation' for a job he went for they had missed out 2 of the benefits he would have been entitled to. still stand by my statement, The reason your so called people 'do not wish to work' would probably be because of lack of information about in-work benefits, or bad experience of admin from work to benefits and visa versa that had made them wary. And yes, graduates often dont know their entitlement to in-work benefits (ive helped a few) in fact it seems to me that even some politicians dont know about in and out of work benefits (after all they insist that the average income is 26k).

And also...yes, ive contributed alot to this post..why? because im sick of seeing those uneducated about the subject forcing their opinions, so i thought id put in a little of the facts somewhere, and give a well needed alternative...I dont comment on what i dont know about, which is why you would only see my comments on subjects to do with work and benefits :)”

“my grammar is bad? and quite cute coming from me? Id like an explanation of that please?”

“to by mamt35
about the energy companies British Gas have been very good and gave me the address of a trust that could help pay off the bill so my payments to them would be lower, when I told them about loosing my job they have worked with me to help with my bills.
the one thing I will not have is a payment meteras you pay 20/30% more for your gas/lights
so I will not have one put in.
It's not easy to make end meet and I think the people in power should try living on what they say wee need to live on (it would not keep them in G&T's).”

“@mamt35 - I think your posts show a lot of actual knowledge on the subject, whereas most of us here just speculate and give opinions. I think that should be applauded and far outweighs the odd grammatical mistake you might make; I mean, we all make them and this is only a local paper forum.”

“Thanks for all your opinions, can't say I agree with you all but that's not the point. Some good idea's and thoughts made by you all (well done). Try and stick to the debating and back-up you opinions and you'll make it. It's very cold here but the second half is about to start. Happy commenting all, thanks again you never fail me.”

“I think we have forgotten one thing. The rest of the world is going through hard times and all their form of the equivalent benefits would be stretched as ours is. But theirs seem to be harder or stricter to claim and indeed to enter their country. A lot of work is needed to try and restore this benefit system and much more.”

“by martin_le3
Saturday, February 18 2012, 9:37AM

"@mamt35 - I think your posts show a lot of actual knowledge on the subject, whereas most of us here just speculate and give opinions.

How do they? x”

“That's a good point jani88 about benefits in other places in the USA they have health bills but low income families can use certain places for free with is like our NHS i think. x”

“http://tinyurl.com/6wu7eap

Worth a watch. We're extremely lucky here. There are low income families in America who are starving, living in tents and cannot afford the most basic healthcare.”

“And do we really want our country to be like America? We pride ourselves on looking after the poor and disabled here.”

“City_C10. i would like to just clarify a few things :) I know i have contributed alot, but only because i want people to know the truth, and i do feel the unemployed get a bad press. I dont just throw figures around, my posts are based on the true facts and figures. As for not being able to continue the unlimited pot of benefits, i think people are misled on exactly how much of taxes are spent on benefits for those that claim. (2010 it was around 198bn out of the 644bn collected, with other welfare, eg: state schooling, it reaches around 260bn) Im afraid i cant give a link to the actual government figures that i use, but the figures on this site are pretty much correct (as much as i am most definately not an extreme liberalist) http://tinyurl.com/35tf9ln . I cannot give this years (2011-2012 figures) as the government have delayed them due to a 'technical error' There are other areas that need looking at, and im afraid it starts at the top not at the bottom. I can say (as a previous highly paid earner) that many claim unnecessary tax relief/expenses (i could of, but refused, as i already had more then needed to live on, i never claimed tax relief/expenses. I also opted to have some of my taxes paid directly to charity to make sure at least some of my taxes were paid to those that needed it)”

“@Mamt35: No, we do not want to be like the US and we aren't. Even if we removed half of the social safety net in place today, the UK would still be miles ahead of the US (I want it to be clear I am not advocating that).

If the figures you have provided are correct, that means the government is spending 31% of their income on social benefits. That is extraordinarily high! Does that include the NHS?”

“@rachel. I didnt know i had copied a post to another area, im not sure what you mean.

AllstarLE1 the first figure of 193-198bn, is for state benefits.”

“OK, thanks for the clarification Mamt35.

So, they are spending 31% on state benefits. This is compounded by the cost of the free medical service. They are related since they both make up the bulk of the social benefits offered to the citizens of the UK. Combined, they use 46% of the government's total budget. That is very high!”

“@ mamt35

http://tinyurl.com/7zl84bn”

“The post i made regarding media reporting of benefit claimants and recent news regarding workfare has nothing to do with this one (which was by City_C10).”

“That is nice then mamt35 sounds fair enough that benefits can be good and bad like you say. You have some great points but hard to keep up woth you and your posts, as they are many in such a good way. x”

“Times are hard look at Greece and what they are going through, no-one here is suffering like that (yet)!”

“have worked hard for many years even after major surgery,3 months later what have noticed is the harder youve worked the worser youre treated. 2008 xmas no money at all given no family tax credits for 2 years.DLA payments I got the lowest for ages when it should of been the highest , the whole system is wrong from start to finish. Diagnosed with a bad disease and basically the money is terrible if am honest . Earnt more working cannot no longer work and never will now . Others have had so much out of the system and hardly ever worked it just doesnt make sense whats going on”

“I just wish for better and happier times for the whole world. This is a depressing time for all.”

“In reply to Lynnie H.You should be thankful you dont live in America.Are you under the age of 65,because you keep saying how hard done to you are regarding benefits.You must be on the higher disability allowance and motorbility where you get access to a brand new free car tax free every 2 yrs.I have parents who became disabled after the age of 65 and recieved nothing.They have worked hard all of their lives.They do not get the rewards that you have.”

“Darkrum, it is not a 'free car' , it costs the whole of the higher rate mobility (£51.40pw) . It is wrong for those in need to be set against others that are in need. Lynnieheal i would think that you would use your experience of benefits to show that the media & government overplay the amount people are getting, but yet you say 'others have had so much out of the system and hardly ever worked it just doesnt make sense whats going on'. To me it doesnt make sense that someone is still ignoring the fact that being out of works is horrendous and is not a luxury, even though they have experienced it themselves. Do you really think anyone else on benefits is treated any differently to you??????”

“If you read back,Lynnie was comparing others on benefits who don't work.She feels that she's owed more.Judging other people when she doesn't know their personal situation.She needs to open her eyes that there are other needy people.Not just MS sufferers.In my comments I was highlighting the fact that if a person becomes disabled after the sge of 65 they are denied any of the disability benefits which she would get.The reason am I highlighting this is because Lynnie Heal has been been on here several times complaining about her financial hardship,yet if she has MS at the scale she claims she has her disability benefit would be at the higher end of the scale.There are plenty of people who pretend they are disabled to get these cars top up benefits,I wonder if they would be so eager to claim for higher rate mobility benefit if all they had to show for it were to have the small economically 'ugly' 3 wheeled contraptions from the 1970's.I doubt it!”

“You cant 'pretend' you are disabled and get DLA, If you read the reports carefully that are in the papers you will see its almost always those whose condition/circumstances improved and they failed to notify, however their claim was legitimate in the first instance. DLA can be very difficult to be awarded in the first place, it does need medical evidence and backing from other proffessionals, you cant just fill in the form and be awarded it :/. in the UK over 65's get attendance allowance which is the replacement for DLA in that age group.”

“I should also add, as the media does not make this clear..You do not get a 'free car' from motability, it is on lease for 3 years, when you can 'renew' the lease again, if you lose the high rate of mobility allowance, the car has to be returned. No different from me or you hiring a car. Its really not that difficult to look up things and check facts, i wish the daily mail would do it :/”

“They do English for people who say they do not speak it. It is called ESOL - Worth looking-up.”

“How odd your post is there Itamadworld. Sounds like someone else I know....Most odd....”

“No old boy....”

“Some good points there made by mam35 (and others), thanks for making a positive contribution and sorry if I was a bit rude to you beforehand. I was having a bad day I feel, no excuse though but I am big enough to say sorry.

Martin8, yes there is some classes for foreign speakers to learn or improve their English speaking/skills.

I feel this is a dying out debate now and would like to thank everyone for their comments and you have all raised some good points.

I have continued the debate under a different heading (as I am sure you have seen) as most have also left good comments there. I hope Martin8 (and others) can find their peace now and despite the banter some of the posts you make are really good with some good points.

I would like all of us to stick to the heading and have friendly debates. No-one can be right (or wrong) all the time, sometimes we overlook points that others say. We can learn of each other and make some good points/discussions.

Help and support each other, then the site can be more effective and helpful to everyone.

Cheers!”

“Martin8, yes there is some classes for foreign speakers to learn or improve their English speaking/skills.

*There 'are' - Sorry!”

“No offence meant (or taken :) ) but are you referring to me when saying about english courses? Im pure breed english, i was born in london, but do have english/language difficulties, i find it hard to express myslef, so i do tend to talk in factual language, as i feel maybe people will understand me more.”

“Was that post for me mam35? I was replying to Martin8's post over the ESOL (English for speakers of other language) classes which are for people from outside the UK. Where English is (or would be their second language). So no it was not aimed at you, if that was your question? ESOL will help people to learn English to help them gain skills and hopefully employment.

Hope that helps!

I have written far too many posts today, so I'll leave you all in peace and wish you a good afternoon and rest of weekend.

Thanks!”

“No it was aimed at martin8, (after my last post, march 19th 1.40pm) id only just noticed it after this post was put to the top of forum :)”

“What are you on about now old chap? My post, there are many as there are for you...We both need to....”

“For a start im not an 'old chap' im a woman :/ You were suggesting (or at least i took it this way) that i was not very good at english. Although i have some problems with language, its an impairment and not because i come from a different country or that i am not intelligent :/”

“3 minutes to reply.....Do you live on here? I like to really over, over look life don't we... : )”

“i really dont understand what you mean :/ but i do have some spare time, and me and my partner take turns in having weekends 'off' so maybe i do have times when i comment more on here in succession, but not very often, and i like to keep in touch with local things :/ We all need a break. I dont understand what you are getting at, i presume its because i get on here sometimes and take interest in the forum? id like you to come and live my life for just one day....maybe then you would understand :/”

“Fantastic...”

“I have no-idea how to reply and do not wish to join this argument, so quite simply I will not! Please add more (if relevant)!”